btw you know how bernstein loves to use baseball-reference similarity scores to tell you if the player "walks with the greats" and etc?

here's sandoval's top comps per bb-ref:

1. Whitey Kurowski (945)
2. Dave Nilsson (943)
3. Garrett Atkins (943)
4. Les Bell (935)
5. Jorge Cantu (928)
6. Chris Sabo (926)
7. Hank Leiber (922)
8. Corey Koskie (921)
9. Ellis Valentine (919)
10. Martin Prado (915)

and then by each year of age (i think bernstein likes this one better)


22. Dick Allen (960) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
23. Jim Ray Hart (960) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
24. Jim Ray Hart (948) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
25. Richie Hebner (947) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
26. Richie Hebner (948) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
27. Richie Hebner (943) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C

and to give you an idea of "walking with the greats" is like, here's a most similar by ages for vladimir guerrero, who at his peak was making ~15mil/yr --- * = hall of famer

23. Yasiel Puig (952) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C (IIRC this used to be willie mays)
24. Manny Ramirez (945) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
25. Willie Mays (937) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
26. Willie Mays (938) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
27. Willie Mays (942) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
28. Manny Ramirez (937) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
29. Willie Mays (928) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
30. Manny Ramirez (920) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
31. Manny Ramirez (914) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
32. Duke Snider (900) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
33. Duke Snider (880) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
34. Duke Snider (878) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
35. Gary Sheffield (866) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
36. Rafael Palmeiro (888) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C

so yeah, enjoy your ~20mil/yr richie hebner, red sox nation!

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No, I wont they have already failed. Free agency is plan B when somehting doesnt work out in development. Sandoval might be a great signing.

But they need a third baseman and a left fielder and they signed them.

Once again, that isn't what I said, and I have even clarified otherwise but you refuse to accept it.



Yes, that is what you said and even in your attempted clarifications you advocate "finding somewhere to spend money"

Let me put it another way


I think you're discounting one important factor. There are players on teams that will be playing next year for one reason or another (contract, young guy getting chance etc)

You asked "Are the Cubs so good they dont need FA?" Of course they arent, but you have to see what you have with these kids (especially considering the tanked seasons) so you're just not going to sign an infielder.

And the same goes for the White Sox and a guy like John Danks. He IS going to pitch.

Your approach works in a video game or if you are the Yankees or Dodgers and can afford to pay people 15 million dollars to not play.


I dont think there are enough free agents out there that make sense (for either team) to spend a lot. That may change next year but it doesn't have to (when team controlled guys work out, you're going to have a lower payroll than if you miss on one)

So to judge a team by where they stand in the payroll rankings is a flawed position because when the goal is to grow your own players.

Yeah, but in the post season he turns into Reggie Jackson crossed with Barry Bonds

Those are not mutually exclusive.

The bottom line is that Boston did exactly what I was calling for. Spend money and fill in the holes on your team. The White Sox and Cubs both have holes. I predict Boston wins at least 85 games next year. You disagree?

Listen, I get if you don't think the Cubs or Sox should be spending money, but don't act like what Boston did isn't a good way to improve your team.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This.

The man is a fucking monster in the post season, unlike guys like Soriano, ARam, etc. from the Cubs days.

Its not all good or all bad though. Likely one of the two deals (Ramirez and Sand) will work out and one will not.

Spending wisely in free agency is a fine way to improve your team if you need to fill holes and have no one under team control to use.

If you look at the makeup of the last 15 World Series teams, they are mostly homegrown guys with a free agent added here and there.

Exactly. I'm not saying all deals will work out. You may get Adam Dunn and you may get Jose Abreu.
Most of them also don't have a bottom 10 payroll, especially the ones who win the World Series.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

The longer this remains undecided, the more likely he signs with the Cubs or Giants over the Red Sox, right? Going back to the Red Sox would be the easy choice...but the money must be keeping him from signing with Boston yesterday.

Scherzer is growing impatient.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Once one of these guys sign, the domino's will fall quickly. Right now, it's a waiting game.

Where is Scherzer going? Back to Detroit? NY? Who else has been mentioned? I thought he'd be the highest paid player on the market, but if his market is still evolving, this could take time for others to fall somewhere.

All things being equal if you're Lester don't you just back to Boston? Aren't they built to win now more than the Cub? How much more money makes the difference to sign here?

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Nah. Lester was always going to be the higher paid, and the first to sign. He sets the market as there is no draft pick loss.

Scherzer cannot sign until Lester does. And it is likely Scherzer signs with a team that loses out on Lester. And he will probably get paid more than he should from a team that was upset after they lost out on Lester. I see Boston signing Scherzer if they lose out on Lester. I don't see the Cubs signing Scherzer. Maybe Atlanta or the Giants depending on if he costs $20M a season.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Scherezer will be paid more than Lester.

I know these guys are well paid and regularly get their rear ends kissed but the free agent process is probably a very enjoyable experience for the bell cow of the group. It is fun to be wined and dined and there is zero incentive to cut it short. I don't see the elongated process as an indication of anything.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Lester is likely to sign for 6 years, ~$150M. You think Scherzer is getting paid $25M a year? And a team loses their first or second round pick?

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I wonder if Lester holds any ill will towards Boston for their low ball offer pre 2014

Scherzer will get more than Lester

Scherzer and his agent dont give a fuck about draft picks.

Scherezer will push $200M. Maybe a 7/$189M contract.

Teams do. The market bears what it bears.

If Scherzer gets paid $27M a year for 7 years, I'll change my signature to whatever you like until pitchers and catchers report.

CC got 7 years, $161M. Teams cannot be that stupid any longer.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Scherzer is better (or has been in the last couple years) than Lester


I dont need any signature promises. If Lester signs for more, then Ill bump this and say you were right


Although I guess it could be like Stanton (more money total, but not more per year)

Guaranteeing seven years itself is hard to see. But the Yankees did it once, they may do it again.

But at $4M more per year than CC? CC had two stellar years before his free agency as well.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

People keep saying pitching prices are out of control but they keep going up. I dont see that trend changing. Not this year.

It would probably take a year where a bunch of good pitchers were available

If I were the Cubs I would give this guy a cutoff. Time to shit or get off the pot. Who are the Cubs not signing waiting for this mercenary??

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

I wish jimmy could be GM of the Cubs and the Bears, just for a day.

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Why wait for Lester when we can go sign Peavy and Hammels and trade them mid season for prospects! Damn Cubs, trying to sign an ACE. FOOLS!

Yeah, he would go trade for Jeff Samardzja

I don't think I would have made THAT trade in the first place. Theo is like a dog chasing his tail. He unloads 2 pretty good pitchers and now decides he needs a SP.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

So if they are "banking" the Tanaka money, and get spurned and bank the Lester money, any of these guys worth throwing the bags of money at?

2015-16 FA SP

Clay Buchholz (31) – $13MM club option with a $245K buyout
Mark Buehrle (37)
A.J. Burnett (39)
Trevor Cahill (28) – $13MM club option with a $300K buyout
Jhoulys Chacin (28)
Wei-Yin Chen (30)
Bartolo Colon (43)
Johnny Cueto (30)
Ross Detwiler (30)
R.A. Dickey (41) – $12MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Marco Estrada (32)
Doug Fister (32)
Yovani Gallardo (30)
Jaime Garcia (29) – $11.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Jeremy Guthrie (37) – $10MM mutual option with a $3.2MM buyout
J.A. Happ (33)
Dan Haren (35)
Tim Hudson (40)
Hisashi Iwakuma (35)
Scott Kazmir (32)
Ian Kennedy (31)
John Lackey (37)
Mat Latos (28)
Mike Leake (28)
Tim Lincecum (32)
Kyle Lohse (37)
Corey Luebke (31) – $7.5MM club option with a $1.75MM buyout
Kris Medlen (30)
Bud Norris (31)
Ross Ohlendorf (33)
Mike Pelfrey (32)
Rick Porcello (27)
David Price (30)
Ricky Romero (31) – $13.1MM club option with a $600K buyout
Jeff Samardzija (31)
Alfredo Simon (35)
Jerome Williams (34)
Jordan Zimmermann (30)

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

I would fully expect them to sign a TOR starter next offseason, as well.

^ I suspect that Zimmermann and Price are going to set the market.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011