Soriano may have been a statistically decent player for the Cubs, but he changed the very essence of the team. He was a terrible fielder, he was incredibly impatient at the plate, and younger players on the Cubs both imitated him and hung with him. It was a terrible decision from day one. Lester is not going to influence the Cubs hitters in a poor manner, nor is he bad for the pitching staff. I don't agree with the Lester move either, fyi.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

A lot of that's wrong though. Soriano being a "bad" fielder is more perception than reality. He was one of the better leftfielders during his time with the Cubs by any objective measure we can use. I realize he looked silly hopping and he was afraid of the wall, but the fact is he handled more plays than most guys in left. Also, if all my young guys could have the career Soriano did by imitating him, I'd want them to do it.

Soriano and Ramirez became the scapegoats for the "hard working" white Cub fans who became increasingly more frustrated after 2003.

And Lester was one of the guys eating chicken and drinking beer in the clubhouse, wasn't he?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I hated Soriano's approach at the plate more than anything else. I liked Ramirez, personally. It's not even about the contract.

_________________
Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

I see it's time to open Dusty Baker's mailbag.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

The ethnic/racial thing is just one aspect of the hatred. I think it makes it a little easier for the guy I'm talking about to hate the player. But the same fan hates Cutler because of his mannerisms/attitude more than because of the fact that he turns the ball over like a motherfucker.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

You probably wont find a bigger Aramis Ramirez fan than me, but I cant blame fans for questioning his hustle, when he repeatedly didnt hustle

Soriano's insistence on leading off was selfish no matter how you slice it


Still liked both guys

Agree. I still don't think Soriano ever came close to being the player the Cubs thought they were getting though.

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

But that "lack of hustle" is really just something to get the working class white guy grinding his teeth. It actually has little to nothing to do with results. Let's say for example, Ramirez didn't run hard out of the box on 150 career balls that failed to go out and instead went off the wall. (I'm sure it isn't that many.) If he had busted it out of the box, how many of those would have been triples? One? Two? And maybe he gets caught trying to get third. I understand why people like the hard grinder. But we're talking about a guy with just below HoF numbers.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Right, but Im pointing out that he gave people an actual reason as opposed to people saying "aw that guy doesnt care" because he doesnt have the right body language or something.


I think a lot of Cub fans remember Ramirez, Soriano and Marmol for all the bad things and none of the good. Those guys were all amazing at times.

Yeah, and that's all different if they win.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Right. And you have to expect a little bit of that. But all three guys were all star caliber in multiple years for the Cubs.

You're right on the money about that. We as fans will overlook a hell of a lot if our team wins. Dennis Rodman says hello.

Hendry wouldn't be remembered as being such a boob either obviously. Though I don't think anyone could look at the way he built the team and think it was for long term. They took a shot at the now, didn't get it and suffered for it. If he succeeded even making the Series ( and in 03 I don't think they would've won anyway) he probably would be remembered a lot more ( Dee) fondly.

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

am I a bad guy because I'm white and like players who run hard?

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Will these prospects be as good as guys like Ramirez and Lee?

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Only if you get upset when a pitcher doesn't haul ass out of the batter's box.

My guess is no.

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

I think everyone likes players that run hard. But there's a big difference between liking a grinder and blaming the guy with giant numbers for a team's failures because maybe he isn't going full tilt 100% of the time.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

If Bryant is Ramirez will it be a disappointment?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Not if he runs hard.

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Bryant has a shot but I think you're right. That's why I don't criticize Hendry for following the orders he was given. He made some great trades to acquire some young elite talent. It doesn't matter if he drafted them or not. Rizzo may be the best hitter on this team and he wasn't drafted or developed in their system.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

According to my guy, the Sox never had a chance. It came down to the Cubs and Giants. I also believe Lester had already made his decision by the time he called the Giants.

No. I'll love him. Hopefully he doesn't wait until May or June to play like a HoF player. That was my only issue with Ramirez.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Yes. I expect Bryant to speak much better English in more manly voice

They didn't give themselves a chance. Sure you might consider all things equal for a couple of million dollar difference. 20 million of 150 million is a rather large difference

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Lester never really got over Boston's lowball offer before last year.

It was about the money. I think Boston was just trying to drive up the price. I don't believe they had any genuine interest in bringing him back. They just wanted to be used as leverage to screw Theo.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I like this line of thinking.

Many people are thinking Theo delighted in beating the Red Sox but it was the Red Sox who pulled the con.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.