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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:01 pm 
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his numbers are so erratic I don't know what to think

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:03 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
his numbers are so erratic I don't know what to think


At worst he's a .280 hitter.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:15 pm 
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America wrote:
As for Melky, I just hope beyond hope we get none of 2013 Melky because that Melky is worse than Viciedo. That's the primary reason I'm not a fan of this deal.


well you can do a lot worse than melky of the last 4 years (excepting your 2013 season, of course). he seems to be a ~.280-.300/10-15/75+ RBI guy with an .800-.900 OPS... but of course he got caught up in biogenesis during his historic 2013 season, so maybe he's one of those guys where the PEDs made him too strong and powerful for the game of baseball and his production fell off of a cliff down into "holy shit neifi perez was using PEDs?!?!" territory.

but hey baseball-reference says that melky is a throwback player via their fan elorater (aka altime rankings) where melky comes in at #1050 in MLB history, sandwiched between ira flaghead, ed smartwood, gus zernial, [melky],stan lopata, darryl hamilton, and bob nieman.

as dan would say, he's truly walking with the immortals!

the way i see it is the white sox are taking a ~$14-15mil/yr punt for the next 3 years to hope that they get a marginally better alejandro de aza with less speed/SB-potential. *shrug* at least he doesn't strike out a lot (in that like vlad guerrero b4 him he's never struck out 100/+ times in a season... and he'll take 35-50 walks while striking out ~60-75 times (with his career high being 94 in 2011 when he first "figured it out" after having a horrible year in atlanta in 2010)

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Last edited by sinicalypse on Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:18 pm 
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Viciedo gave you -.7 WAR out there, so anything you get from him is gonna be a big improvement.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:23 pm 
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Apologist wrote:
Viciedo gave you -.7 WAR out there, so anything you get from him is gonna be a big improvement.


He had power though and he's still only 25. Not sure if they should give up on him but the Cabrera signing probably means that decision has been made.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:24 pm 
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Apologist wrote:
Viciedo gave you -.7 WAR out there, so anything you get from him is gonna be a big improvement.


yeah but at least with viciedo you had the slim hopes that the light would go on and he'd hit 25-30/+ HR and not absolutely kill you with the defense and the whole "i'm not gonna hit for over a .750 OPS" thing. but hey you've been paying him under 3mil/yr for the last 4 years so in this case i'd say you pretty much got what you paid for: a OBP in the high .200s or low-low .300s and that faint hope of power.... altho after going .255/25/78 as a 23 year old in 2012 he pretty much fell off a cliff and even the 21HR/58RBI couldn't offset his .238 with 32 walks which was good for a daunting .686 OPS.

don't worry abreu will hit 45+ this year and you can pencil in laroche for 25+ and then uhhhh ummmmm.... well, somebody else will hit at least 20, right? who am i forgetting? it's not like the whitesox are a team that traditionally needs to mash longballs to win.... oh wait a minute.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:16 pm 
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Garcia has it in him to hit 20. Alexei, Flowers and Cabrera have their moments. I am not stressed out over the lack of power.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:12 pm 
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America wrote:
Garcia has it in him to hit 20. Alexei, Flowers and Cabrera have their moments. I am not stressed out over the lack of power.


aha! garcia was the guy i was trying to think of! i knew there was someone else with power/potential on the sox but it was eluding me as i was racking my brain going "beckham? no way. do they have a third baseman? not like that. theoretically a catcher could do it but that'd take a career year" but indeed it was good ol avi-sail away sail away sail a-wahhhhhh </newage> that was escaping me.

ah well i think the white sox can use another proper masher, and let's hope it's good ol avisail garcia.... hey in his usual ~40games/yr he managed to nearly triple his walk total when compared to his ~40games in 2013. that's gotta be a good sign!

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:34 pm 
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Well Avi is destroying the Venezuelan league with 5 home runs and 11 walks. Yippers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:43 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
his numbers are so erratic I don't know what to think


At worst he's a .280 hitter.


Five of his ten seasons have been below .280.

At worst, he is a .249 hitter.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:55 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
his numbers are so erratic I don't know what to think


At worst he's a .280 hitter.


Five of his ten seasons have been below .280.

At worst, he is a .249 hitter.


well, in fairness to melky he IS a career .279 hitter and if you look at the 2nd half of his 10 year career he's seemingly more of a .275-.300/+ guy than he is a .250 hitter.... not to mention excepting the suckfest that was melky's 2013 and his 1yr odyssey in atlanta in 2010, he's pretty much been that .275-or.300/10something/60-75/10-15SB guy, except that his SBs have fallen off over the last 2 seasons (along with everything else falling off in 2013)

i really think you could do a lot worse than melky, as it's entirely possible he has a new hookup/drug and maybe he has that career year where he goes .311/22/78/12 or something, but most likely you'll get like .279/13/69/8 or something and hope the guy doesn't suck at defense. otherwise, let's let MLBtraderumors.com fill you in with cromulent info on the guy from their free agent profile>>>

Strengths/Pros

Cabrera hit a strong .301/.351/.458 with 16 homers, 35 doubles and three triples in 621 plate appearances this season. In three of the past four seasons, he’s batted above .300 and context-neutral stats such as wRC+ and OPS+ have each pegged him as at least 18 percent better than a league-average hitter in each of those campaigns.

Melky Cabrera, A switch-hitter, Cabrera is a bit stronger as a right-handed bat, but his platoon split is minor. Over the past four seasons, Cabrera has batted .308/.350/.477 as a right-handed hitter and .309/.352/.451 as a left-handed hitter. In terms of average and OBP he’s about the same from each side, but he does offer a bit more pop against lefty pitchers.

He’s never been one to strike out much (career 12 percent), and he posted a career-best 10.8 percent strikeout rate in 2014. Cabrera’s swinging-strike rate (5.1 percent) was the 21st-lowest strikeout rate among qualified hitters this season, and his 88.3 percent contact rate ranked 16th.

Cabrera will play the majority of next season at the age of 30, so he’s a relatively young bat. Even a five-year contract would only run through his age-34 season, so it’s possible that a team could buy mostly prime years without worrying about too much of the decline phase with this deal.

Weaknesses/Cons

The elephant in the room when discussing Cabrera’s free agent stock, of course, is his past suspension for PED usage. Cabrera was hit with a 50-game suspension near the end of his tenure with the 2012 World Champion Giants, and he admitted at the time that his punishment was “the result of my use of a substance that I should not have used.” That test called the validity of his excellent 2012 numbers into question, and naysayers exuded a sense of almost vindication in 2013 when his numbers went into the tank. While the tumor can now clearly be noted as a strong factor in those struggles, some will always question how much of Cabrera’s production is legitimate.

Back to his on-field characteristics, Cabrera may not strike out much but he also doesn’t walk much or show excellent plate discipline. He’s an aggressive hacker who despite rarely swinging and missing at a pitch averaged just 3.69 pitches per plate appearance in 2014 — a figure that tied him for 105th in Major League Baseball among qualified hitters.

Cabrera once had value on the basepaths as a potential 20-steal threat, but Fangraphs pegged him with negative baseruning value in each of the past two seasons. Perhaps last year can be written off, but Cabrera stole just six bags and provided negative baserunning value even in a healthy 2014 season.

Both Ultimate Zone Rating and Defensive Runs Saved feel that while Cabrera’s arm is a plus asset in left field, he is overall a below-average defender at the position. Given his decreased speed, it would seem a stretch to suggest that he could still handle center field, even on a limited basis. Indeed, Toronto only played him there for nine innings this past season. He also ended the season on the DL for a minor injury — a broken pinkie finger sustained while sliding back into first base. The injury did require surgery.

Finally, the Blue Jays reportedly plan to extend a qualifying offer to Cabrera, so a team will have to surrender its top unprotected pick in order to sign him.

Personal

Cabrera has fit in well to a Blue Jays clubhouse that features a number of his countrymen in Edwin Encarnacion, Jose Reyes, Jose Bautista and Juan Francisco, among others. He was also well-liked in San Francisco, even after his suspension. At the time, Sergio Romo made it clear that Cabrera would have been welcomed back with open arms, asking, “Why wouldn’t we want him on our team?” and referring to Cabrera as “a great teammate.”

Cabrera has taken an active role in the community in his native Dominican Republic, organizing youth league tournaments (Spanish link) and encouraging children to stay diligent with their studies while chasing their baseball dreams. Cabrera also donated both cash and food to his home country following the hurricanes of 2007 and was honored with the 2008 Munson Award for his “excellence and philanthropic work in the community,” per the Blue Jays’ media guide

Expected Contract

[blah blah blah]

Ultimately, Cabrera’s contract is difficult to project, but I feel the $36-45MM figure floated past the Toronto Star’s Brendan Kennedy in a survey of rival agents was low. Cabrera can rightly claim that he’s one of the best bats on the market at a relatively young age, and that’s enough for me to predict a perhaps unnecessarily specific five-year, $66.25MM contract (Peralta’s contract with an extra year at the same AAV)

----


so hey at least the sox got him at 3/45 as opposed to 5/66, eh?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:55 pm 
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He's no Chris Coughlan!

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:58 pm 
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So this was the guy taking female hormones right? Like, infertility meds or something?

Goooood luck with all that.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:02 pm 
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oh aha! i forgot that his suspension was at the end of 2012 and started with the 2013 season (i had been assuming that he was one of the 2013 biogenesis guys but he was out in front of all of that), therefore that'd explain some of the falloff in 2013 because whatever his normal routine was for starting off a season had to have been changed somewhat dramatically, and maybe he was a total fish out of water when he came back (if it's not merely as simple as not being on the PEDs). i feel a little bit better about him going forward knowing that his 2013 season started off goofy with the suspension.

the other troubling thing that free agent profile from mlbtraderumors.com mentioned was that he finished last year on the DL as he had a broken pinky finger that required surgery from sliding back into 1B. hopefully his hand recovers to normal and he doesn't have anything lingering like braun's thumb otherwise this could be the "uh oh" deal that many seem to fear this very well could be.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:47 am 
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Theyare as good as the Royals arent they? One more arm in the pen maybe? I would just want them to be in the hunt entering September. meaningless games in the Summer suck. At least that what my Cub fan friends tell me.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:03 am 
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Solid pick up. He can use Abreu's guy.

Plus, Eaton and him can become best friends on the 15 day.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:29 am 
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Another quality arm in the bullpen and things will really start to come around. 2015 should be a fun year for the White Sox.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:09 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Sox fans are loving this move!



Not all Sox fans. SHARK is pissed. He doesn't want any juicers.



Hahn is rescuing the damned franchise. There has not been ANY pre-season buzz concerning the Sox since 2006. Hahn needed time to clean up the Kenny Williams toxic waste dump.

Will never forget when Williams traded for Teahen, gave him a 3 year extension and then announced the Sox were broke and would make no further moves. THAT really inspired confidence.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:23 am 
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Aggravated Sox Fan Bob wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Sox fans are loving this move!



Not all Sox fans. SHARK is pissed. He doesn't want any juicers.



Hahn is rescuing the damned franchise. There has not been ANY pre-season buzz concerning the Sox since 2006. Hahn needed time to clean up the Kenny Williams toxic waste dump.

Will never forget when Williams traded for Teahen, gave him a 3 year extension and then announced the Sox were broke and would make no further moves. THAT really inspired confidence.

aggravated Sox Fan Bob is no longer...aggravated?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:24 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Sox fans are loving this move!



Not all Sox fans. SHARK is pissed. He doesn't want any juicers.



What did he think of those illustrious Sox careers of Canseco and Manny being Manny???

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:09 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Another quality arm in the bullpen and things will really start to come around. 2015 should be a fun year for the White Sox.


I would love to hear a trade between the sox and mariners sending Viciedo for one of their relievers

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:12 am 
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This is the move I wanted.

I am very satisfied with this off season. I have no reason to consider the fortunes of teams in the NL any longer now that the present and future of mine look so good.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:14 am 
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Aggravated Sox Fan Bob wrote:
Will never forget when Williams traded for Teahen, gave him a 3 year extension and then announced the Sox were broke and would make no further moves. THAT really inspired confidence.


That was a low point.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:15 am 
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America wrote:
Danks is as good as gone, in my opinion.


As for Melky, I just hope beyond hope we get none of 2013 Melky because that Melky is worse than Viciedo. That's the primary reason I'm not a fan of this deal.

1 Adam Eaton L CF
2 Melky Cabrera S LF
3 Jose Abreu R 1B
4 Adam LaRoche L DH
5 Avisail Garcia R RF
6 Conor Gillaspie L 3B
7 Alexei Ramirez R SS
8 Micah Johnson L/Carlos Sanchez S 2B
9 Tyler Flowers R C

Doesn't necessarily instill fear in opponents.


Why would you say that? High OBP guys at the top of the lineup, followed by proven power with decent average guys towards the bottom. That isn't a huge HR lineup but it is one that can keep an inning going.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:19 am 
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Chus wrote:
Aggravated Sox Fan Bob wrote:
Will never forget when Williams traded for Teahen, gave him a 3 year extension and then announced the Sox were broke and would make no further moves. THAT really inspired confidence.


That was a low point.
I think this and the Danks contract are the worst moves he made.


Bob, what was wrong with the Canseco deal? Big Hurt was injured and the offense was struggling. Canseco was on the street, so the Sox got what they could out of him.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:06 am 
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Officially announced. 3yr $42 mil

Quote:
White Sox and outfielder Melky Cabrera agree to terms

An already exciting offseason produced yet another holiday gift for White Sox fans, as the club officially agreed to a three-year contract with outfielder Melky Cabrera. Cabrera, 30, batted .301 (171-568) with 35 doubles, 16 home runs, 73 RBI, 81 runs scored, 54 extra-base hits and a .351 on-base percentage last season with Toronto.

"Melky provides us with a professional hitter, who reaches base on a consistent basis," said Rick Hahn, White Sox senior vice president/general manager. "We think he slides into Robin's batting order perfectly and adds depth to a very versatile lineup. We are very excited about his addition to our roster."

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