I found Biggie Smalls stuff to be far more authentic. If you listen to What's Beef Ten Crack Commandments and other songs he wrote you got the feeling he'd actually lived it. With Tupac it seemed disingenuous. I'm old enough to remember Same Song.

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It wasn't just the hate mail. His bosses and colleagues didn't like it either and he was threatened with termination if he didn't stop. He disarmed them with kindness and the ratings took care of the rest.

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He was telling people the best way to sell crack and 2pac told stories to get people to understand why they shouldn't sell crack. I remember him from the underground. That doesn't change the message he was delivering. Again listen to the link above.

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You keep talking about glorifying Thug Life. You're missing the point. I don't have a problem with him rapping about that life if he'd actually lived it. I just never believed that he lived it. He attempted to capitalize on a style of music that was hot at the time. He got on board with the crew that was the hottest crew in the game at the time as a way of selling records. I viewed him in the same light as I viewed other guys from that era who rapped about a gangster lifestyle that they hadn't lived. That's where the term studio gangster originated.

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Did you read the details of the rape case involving 2Pac? You may have a different view if you'd read that. Where is the positivity in that?

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Who cares? Hand-wringing about "authenticity" in any genre of music is a fool's errand. Judge him on the work.

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I grew up listening to rap music and I am from the ghetto and to the people from that world you better believe that authenticity matters. No one likes a phony motherfucker

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He never said that he did any of those things. He was sharing stories of the street and trying to get people to understand why people did certain things. At the same time trying to get people to see why those things are bad for their community. He didn't jump on any crew because it was hot. He made Death Row. What are you talking about?

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Let's judge him on the work. Bomb first, Hit em up, America's most wanted, Soldier Soldier were all about drugs and shooting people. There was no positivity in any of that. In one of the songs he is lying by all accounts about fucking Biggie Smalls wife. Where is the positivity in a guy that lies on his dick?

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It's obvious you don't know your history.

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It was a setup by the same people who shot him the first time. He wasn't willing to pay them anymore. For the last time listen to the link.

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I'm confident about my history. Suge went to prison to sign him on a napkin.

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Dr. Dre and Snoop were with Death Row well before Tupac came along. It was already established. They were already established

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I don't know what the link is supposed to prove. I will listen to it but it won't be now. I'm well versed in 2pac history.

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Apparently not. The Chronic album established Death Row records. That was written about 3 yrs before they signed 2Pac

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What happened at the end of Soldier? None of those glorified drugs and you using a diss track as an example of something is hilarious.

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Made doesn't mean created. Made means he blew it up. He was the hottest rapper. Not Snoop or Dre. Suge provided the protection he needed.

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Just in case you forgot his ultimate message was that wanting to be a soldier will end in death or prison.

http://genius.com/2pac-souljas-story-lyrics

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I hate to play the cultural card but it is obvious that you aren't familiar with Rap genre. The term studio gangster was created as a way of ridiculing guys that pretended to be gangsters while they made rap music. When you ask who cares about authenticity? Obviously a number of Rappers and rap magazines because that became a running joke during the 90's

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huh? I think you now need to check a thesaurus

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Dr. Dre was the top producer in the industry well before 2Pac came along. Every artist he touched at the time hit it big. In fact while you are talking about you tube and documentaries you need to watch the videos regarding the origins of the Biggie Tupac beef. Tupac was on tape basically admitting if I remember right, about how he was envious of Biggie Smalls record sells. He started the beef with Biggie to sell records. His sells took off once he got with Dre. It wasn't the other way around

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You're making a lot if excuses. You stated that he didn't talk about shooting people. I gave you examples of just that and now you're spinning it. There were a lot of people that believed the stuff about Faith and from an etiquette stuff a man's wife should be off limits. I'm glad that you can simply chalk it up as a diss track. Maybe you should ask her if it was just a diss track. She actually was asked about the stuff on camera and found herself answering questions about something she should not have had to answer. I'm glad to know it was hilarious. Thanks

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How do you know that he isn't black? You don't need to be black to understand the origins of gangster rap or rap in general.

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Context is very important. 2pac made Death Row what it was. He was the most popular rapper. Not Dre or Snoop. Snoop even acknowledged that on Pac's Life.

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He's not talking about he shot anyone in that song. He's telling a story of a kid that dreams of living the street life. He describes how that dream usually ends. How do you miss that? Also I never said he didn't talk about shooting people. You're making stuff up again. I said he never said he sold drugs or shot someone. That is true. He painted vivid pictures of the lives many black people lived through his music.

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But you have to be able to sell it. Fogerty had never seen the Mississippi when he wrote "Proud Mary" but he made you believe he was Huck Finn.

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Don't take it personally.

Since I helped start this back up & I have a minute, I'll clarify my position on Tupac. From very limited experience personally and a shitload of second half stories from guys I trust, I knew/believed him to be only as tough as the body guards around him. Like a poodle with a safe fence. The other problem I had with him after he blew up was that he forgot the stories he was telling weren't really his own, but his take on those of the actual hard asses around him.

He (imo) wasn't even as tough as his mom or the group around her. I really think that that was it. It wasn't unusual for the kids of old Panthers/Weathermen/etc. to start to talk tough as hell once everyone around them had already heard the messages of their (Tupac, et al) parents' generation falling on disinterested ears. They all seemingly had the ability to tell really interesting stories, but many of the kids like Tupac seemed to need to portray themselves as if they first hand were part of some harder struggle. Then many of them seemed to get lost in kind of an alternate reality.

Tupac wanted it both ways. He wanted to be hard, at least as hard as his mother, but it wasn't in the little guy. The real hard asses he surrounded himself with, he paid to tell their stories and adopt them as his own. Imo.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I just remembered I hate Mumford & Sons. Now what do I do with that post I made?

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I don't doubt he wasn't as tough as his mother. I think he had the heart even if he didn't have the physical strength to back his words up. He wasn't running from fights. In fact as he talked about in the link I posted he was more of a movement brother trying to learn and connect to the streets.

The stories he told in his lyrics weren't repackaged to get the listener to believe he did these things. He was letting the people in the black communities know that he felt their pain and shared their anger. Most of the time he was rapping about how those things would lead to death or prison. In my opinion his ultimate goal was to empower and educate the black youth. That's what I get from his lyrics.

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From his lyrics, generally yes. From much of the rest of his life (& public promotion), you got an entirely different perception. In the beginning, he was always talking about a more noble goal & to an extent it seemed genuine. Once his appetites, the Bishop Magic Don Juan, the Playas Ball & Suge were his whole world, it seemed a bit more contrived.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.