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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:43 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Family Guy (like South Park before them) has done a million Christianity jokes


There's an episode where Jesus ressurects River Phonenix and they do blow til River dies again.


If Seacrest and good dolphin chopped Seth MacFarlane's head off is there anyone here who would stick up for them or say, "Well, you know, he did insult their God"?

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:45 pm 
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Don't watch south park much. I"ve seen the funny scenes on youtube. There was one where Jesus is at a bar drinking from the Holy Grail. So, us Christians take it without killing people.


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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:46 pm 
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How many more terror attacks in the name of he religion (stated explicitly by the terrorist group) until people stop defending the religion?

At some point the actual consequences of the teachings carry more weight than whatever was intended



I guess eventually all the infidels will be dead and these guys will relax


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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:49 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Family Guy (like South Park before them) has done a million Christianity jokes


There's an episode where Jesus ressurects River Phonenix and they do blow til River dies again.


If Seacrest and good dolphin chopped Seth MacFarlane's head off is there anyone here who would stick up for them or say, "Well, you know, he did insult their God"?

No, they wouldn't.

There is NO religious comparison to Islam at this point


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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:50 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Beardown wrote:
NBC said 1 dead, 2 in custody at 5:30.

Not clear on that now.

AP just reported 18 year old turned himself in. But others are saying that guy isn't the guy. It's a diversion tactic to keep them off the scent.

I am amazed at how these guys will take one for the team.

Hard to beat a team like that


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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:59 pm 
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Well at least for now the apologists and defenders or just plain contrarians have quieted.

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:03 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Well at least for now the apologists and defenders or just plain contrarians have quieted.

Hooray We shouted em down!!!!!



No, I like hearing all the opinions. Especially older guys who have seen a lot more than me.


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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:15 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Well at least for now the apologists and defenders or just plain contrarians have quieted.


Who is defending those cowards?

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:19 pm 
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Chus wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Well at least for now the apologists and defenders or just plain contrarians have quieted.


Who is defending those cowards?


Barack. Hussein. Obama. And Hillary Clinton.

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:20 pm 
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DannyB wrote:
Chus wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Well at least for now the apologists and defenders or just plain contrarians have quieted.


Who is defending those cowards?


Barack. Hussein. Obama. And Hillary Clinton.


They defended the shooters?

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:46 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Well at least for now the apologists and defenders or just plain contrarians have quieted.


I don't get the "apologists and defenders" part here. (Arrogantly I presume I'm included in this group). I've never defended, apologized or been a contrarian for the sake of being contrarian on this issue. I get that it's not the point of the cartoons to just mock, but to make a statement of principles against these heathens. A satirical magazine getting into the sewer to fight gutter snipes still seems to obscure the bigger point.

The three bastards and any of their co-conspirators who did this should be caught, charged, fairly tried and if found guilty dropped into prison w/o much contact with the rest of the civilized world for the rest of their lives. Just like any other person thusly convicted of murder.

Now I wish we would prosecute the leaders & wealthy elite of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for their complicity in the events of the Marine Corps barracks bombing in '83, 9/11/01 & ISIS/ISIL. If convicted, punish them to the letter of the law. (And to be fair, allow for the prosecution of those who misled this country into an illegal war in Iraq)

Simple enough? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:50 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Well at least for now the apologists and defenders or just plain contrarians have quieted.


I don't get the "apologists and defenders" part here. (Arrogantly I presume I'm included in this group). I've never defended, apologized or been a contrarian for the sake of being contrarian on this issue. I get that it's not the point of the cartoons to just mock, but to make a statement of principles against these heathens. A satirical magazine getting into the sewer to fight gutter snipes still seems to obscure the bigger point.

The three bastards and any of their co-conspirators who did this should be caught, charged, fairly tried and if found guilty dropped into prison w/o much contact with the rest of the civilized world for the rest of their lives. Just like any other person thusly convicted of murder.

Now I wish we would prosecute the leaders & wealthy elite of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for their complicity in the events of the Marine Corps barracks bombing in '83, 9/11/01 & ISIS/ISIL. If convicted, punish them to the letter of the law. (And to be fair, allow for the prosecution of those who misled this country into an illegal war in Iraq)

Simple enough? :D

Thats a lofty second request. You could go on and on with that for years and go deep! Just as simple as Bin Laden living in the nicer burb of Pakistan for years. hey, with friends like these....

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:02 pm 
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Never mind they are not quiet. We cannot condemn the people today without also condemning the Reagan/Bush supported Saudis that did other shit long ago. It is not zero sum. Whatever happened long ago or even last month does not make France ok.

What is so hard for you all to understand about mad people killed people for no reason?

You all had no problem jumping on Columbine and such killers. Oh wait not in the religion of peace.

Hypocrites.

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:09 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:16 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Never mind they are not quiet. We cannot condemn the people today without also condemning the Reagan/Bush supported Saudis that did other shit long ago. It is not zero sum. Whatever happened long ago or even last month does not make France ok.

What is so hard for you all to understand about mad people killed people for no reason?

You all had no problem jumping on Columbine and such killers. Oh wait not in the religion of peace.

Hypocrites.

Huh?

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:59 pm 
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Never mind was typing out of my head I guess... It is hypocritical to me that all the shootings and weird crap that happens here like Columbine is attributed. This France crap the Ft. Worth thing and other killings of people by Muslims are not terrorism. Just pissed me off.

People will find a way to justify the Boston Marathon bombers for instance or at least be sympathetic. Other shit that happens well... People including our government our afraid to be critical of radical Islam for some reason. I do not know why but there is a reason and I do not think we will like it someday.

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:06 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:22 am 
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:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:35 am 
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Blow me.

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:40 am 
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pittmike wrote:
People including our government our afraid to be critical of radical Islam for some reason. I do not know why but there is a reason and I do not think we will like it someday.

I don't usually "do" politics around here, and I won't after this post probably, but...

This is just false.
We have fought hundreds of battles because in the last decade plus because we, as a nation, to varying degrees, completely oppose radical Islam.

Taliban, ISIS, Syria, Yemen, etc,.......yeah.
We don't like what they do.

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:51 am 
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It's not the government you have to worry about, it's progressives who revel in taking down the privileged Christianity and Judaism while mollycoddling Islam.

It's easy to say that Bill Maher is one of the few who "goes after all religions equally," but it's not so much that as he goes after all religions at a pretty high baseline and then goes further when necessary (read: Islam).

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:56 am 
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spanky wrote:
pittmike wrote:
People including our government our afraid to be critical of radical Islam for some reason. I do not know why but there is a reason and I do not think we will like it someday.

I don't usually "do" politics around here, and I won't after this post probably, but...

This is just false.
We have fought hundreds of battles because in the last decade plus because we, as a nation, to varying degrees, completely oppose radical Islam.

Taliban, ISIS, Syria, Yemen, etc,.......yeah.
We don't like what they do.



No you are wrong. There is some reason that even just today the WH refused to categorize the France attack as terrorism. There is the WH calling the Ft. Hood attack a workplace violence event. They seem to be afraid to use the proper terms for the events that happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:00 am 
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Speaking of Maher, here's what he said, edited for liberation from 140-character constraints:

Quote:
Condemning attack is not enough: unless you strongly endorse the right of anyone to make fun of any religion or prophet, you are not a moderate Muslim.

Yes, exactly. I like it, but in my honest opinion, the only belief systems that are compatible with modern Western civilization are reform Judaism and the liberal mainline Protestant denominations. No, not Catholicism, no matter what Pope Party Time says is no big deal this week, and not Islam, never Islam. You can't talk about rules for moderate Muslims because what moderate Muslims?

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:01 am 
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There is some organized effort to not call radical Islam and their attacks what they are. Ok fine sit there and be surprised when its on your doorstep. But feel good you didn't clump all the crazies with the Muslim dude we all know down the street. The radicals are a huge problem. It is ok to say they are bastardizing their religion without alienating your neighbor/coworker/whatever here.

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:25 am 
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Here are some thoughts from a dickbag:

http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2015/0 ... criticism/

Quote:
Hebdo’s goal is to provoke, and these cartoons make it very clear who the white editorial staff was interested in provoking: France’s incredibly marginalized, often attacked, Muslim immigrant community.

wah wah

Quote:
Even in a fresh-off-the-press, glowing BBC profile of Charb, Hebdo’s murdered editor, he comes across as a racist asshole.

Charb had strongly defended Charlie Hebdo’s cartoons featuring the Prophet Muhammad.

“Muhammad isn’t sacred to me,” he told the Associated Press in 2012, after the magazine’s offices had been fire-bombed.

“I don’t blame Muslims for not laughing at our drawings. I live under French law. I don’t live under Koranic law.”

This is not being a racist asshole. It's being a citizen of a secular republic.

Quote:
Now, I understand that calling someone a ‘racist asshole’ after their murder is a callous thing to do, and I don’t do it lightly. This isn’t ambiguous, though: the editorial staff of Hebdo consistently aimed to provoke Muslims. They ascribe to the same edgy-white-guy mentality that many American cartoonists do: nothing is sacred, sacred targets are funnier, lighten up, criticism is censorship. And just like American cartoonists, they and their supporters are wrong. White men punching down is not a recipe for good satire, and needs to be called out.

When your opponent is threatening to shoot you or behead you for expressing an opinion, I submit that you are not punching down at all. That's all I can bear to fisk; this guy is the pits.

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:37 am 
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I realize that Islam doesn't have a central authority like the Catholic church, but at some point, if you belong to a group and identify as a member of that group, you have to step up and lead said group in the values you believe it stands for. If you fail to do so, it's absolutely fair to assume you support the behaviors of those claiming to lead your group.

For example, we have no problem condemning an organization like the KKK. If three KKK members drag a guy behind a truck, we don't say "THAT'S JUST THOSE THREE GUYS! STOP PAINTING ALL KKK MEMBERS WITH A BROAD BRUSH!" That's because there is a basic philosophy the KKK espouses that we find reprehensible. Can the same not be said for Islam?

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:21 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I realize that Islam doesn't have a central authority like the Catholic church, but at some point, if you belong to a group and identify as a member of that group, you have to step up and lead said group in the values you believe it stands for. If you fail to do so, it's absolutely fair to assume you support the behaviors of those claiming to lead your group.
We need to look no further than Saudi Arabia here. If one of these French guys had gone to that country and started handing out these pictures they likely would have been killed by the government. There isn't a central authority but we have enough Islamic state governments to get the clear message that you will either abide by the rules they state or there will be consequences. Once those countries start to accept that other religions are an acceptable choice then you'll see less of this type of stuff. I can't blame any radical Muslim for thinking it is his duty to kill "enemies of Islam" when the government that controls the land of Mecca literally kills "enemies of Islam" for being in possession of a Bible.

Personally though, I think it is less of a problem with the actual religion and more of a problem when religion is in control of any country. If Christianity was in control of any country that mattered they'd probably be far more extreme than the current climate where they have no choice but to deal with others. The best thing that could happen to the world is to have no country where the laws are specifically drawn from religion.

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:25 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I realize that Islam doesn't have a central authority like the Catholic church, but at some point, if you belong to a group and identify as a member of that group, you have to step up and lead said group in the values you believe it stands for. If you fail to do so, it's absolutely fair to assume you support the behaviors of those claiming to lead your group.
We need to look no further than Saudi Arabia here. If one of these French guys had gone to that country and started handing out these pictures they likely would have been killed by the government. There isn't a central authority but we have enough Islamic state governments to get the clear message that you will either abide by the rules they state or there will be consequences. Once those countries start to accept that other religions are an acceptable choice then you'll see less of this type of stuff. I can't blame any radical Muslim for thinking it is his duty to kill "enemies of Islam" when the government that controls the land of Mecca literally kills "enemies of Islam" for being in possession of a Bible.

Personally though, I think it is less of a problem with the actual religion and more of a problem when religion is in control of any country. If Christianity was in control of any country that mattered they'd probably be far more extreme than the current climate where they have no choice but to deal with others. The best thing that could happen to the world is to have no country where the laws are specifically drawn from religion.

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:30 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Personally though, I think it is less of a problem with the actual religion and more of a problem when religion is in control of any country. If Christianity was in control of any country that mattered they'd probably be far more extreme than the current climate where they have no choice but to deal with others. The best thing that could happen to the world is to have no country where the laws are specifically drawn from religion.


Sure, but it seems as if Islam is a complete system for living which includes an imperative to form Islamic governments.

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 Post subject: Re: Paris Terrorists
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:31 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Here are some thoughts from a dickbag:

http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2015/0 ... criticism/

Quote:
Hebdo’s goal is to provoke, and these cartoons make it very clear who the white editorial staff was interested in provoking: France’s incredibly marginalized, often attacked, Muslim immigrant community.

wah wah

Quote:
Even in a fresh-off-the-press, glowing BBC profile of Charb, Hebdo’s murdered editor, he comes across as a racist asshole.

Charb had strongly defended Charlie Hebdo’s cartoons featuring the Prophet Muhammad.

“Muhammad isn’t sacred to me,” he told the Associated Press in 2012, after the magazine’s offices had been fire-bombed.

“I don’t blame Muslims for not laughing at our drawings. I live under French law. I don’t live under Koranic law.”

This is not being a racist asshole. It's being a citizen of a secular republic.

Quote:
Now, I understand that calling someone a ‘racist asshole’ after their murder is a callous thing to do, and I don’t do it lightly. This isn’t ambiguous, though: the editorial staff of Hebdo consistently aimed to provoke Muslims. They ascribe to the same edgy-white-guy mentality that many American cartoonists do: nothing is sacred, sacred targets are funnier, lighten up, criticism is censorship. And just like American cartoonists, they and their supporters are wrong. White men punching down is not a recipe for good satire, and needs to be called out.

When your opponent is threatening to shoot you or behead you for expressing an opinion, I submit that you are not punching down at all. That's all I can bear to fisk; this guy is the pits.


That's essentially victim blaming and, although not directly, the author willfully admits the violent and intolerant actions of Muslims. Yet he wishes to do nothing about that, not even criticize it but the author definitely blames the attacks on the magazine. What I can draw from the article is the author would love to bend/break French law and have two subsets, one for Muslims and another for everyone else. You post pictures of Mohammed? You got to jail. This is admitting that the Muslim faith/culture is simply incompatible with the host, but that was proven long ago. Although that sort of thing is having its dawn in the U.K. so at least they'll have a template.

That's pathetic and indicative of the appeasement/self-hate of the E.U. thinking. They are cutting their own throats.


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