Sure, but it seems as if Islam is a complete system for living which includes an imperative to form Islamic governments.

This is admitting that the Muslim faith/culture is simply incompatible with the host...

Speaking of Maher, here's what he said, edited for liberation from 140-character constraints:


Yes, exactly. I like it, but in my honest opinion, the only belief systems that are compatible with modern Western civilization are reform Judaism and the liberal mainline Protestant denominations. No, not Catholicism, no matter what Pope Party Time says is no big deal this week, and not Islam, never Islam. You can't talk about rules for moderate Muslims because what moderate Muslims?

The victims are the American People and the Republic itself.

Christianity used to be the same way though.

Oh sure, I certainly don't think Islam has a monopoly on being overbearing.

But right now, in the times in which you and I are living, there is no groundswell for Christianity to be wholly incorporated into our governing bodies. And those who would like to see such a thing are largely marginalized as wackos. They certainly don't have a whole lot of liberals going to bat for them. The vast majority of those people who identify as "Christian" have accepted- embraced may be a better word- the fact that they live in liberal societies.

We need to look no further than Saudi Arabia here. If one of these French guys had gone to that country and started handing out these pictures they likely would have been killed by the government. There isn't a central authority but we have enough Islamic state governments to get the clear message that you will either abide by the rules they state or there will be consequences. Once those countries start to accept that other religions are an acceptable choice then you'll see less of this type of stuff. I can't blame any radical Muslim for thinking it is his duty to kill "enemies of Islam" when the government that controls the land of Mecca literally kills "enemies of Islam" for being in possession of a Bible.

Personally though, I think it is less of a problem with the actual religion and more of a problem when religion is in control of any country. If Christianity was in control of any country that mattered they'd probably be far more extreme than the current climate where they have no choice but to deal with others. The best thing that could happen to the world is to have no country where the laws are specifically drawn from religion.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

There are plenty of moderate Muslims.

I don't think that last sentence is totatlly true.

To ask moderate Muslims to condemn radicals is rather hypocritical and one needs not look any further than the aforementioned Saudi Arabia for affirmation. Saudi Arabia is a blatant violator of human rights and has been for a number of yrs. The U.S. Government has never really condemned or attempted to sanction them for said violations. We continue to host the leaders of their monarchy knowing that they continue to treat their people like shit. Saudi Arabia has also been a sponsor of terrorism, with some of their sponsored terrorism having been practiced against the U.S. The U.S. Government continues to do business with Saudi Arabia though it is known that they have been a sponsor of terrorism.

No. That doesn't make sense. A group of non-Muslims telling an Islamic state how to operate and punishing them for not abiding would do no good and likely be counterproductive. Its just like we don't want Saudi Arabia to tell us how we should treat women or Jews.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

It actually does make sense. You're a non Muslim that is attempting to tell Muslims how to operate as we speak.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

No. That doesn't make sense. A group of non-Muslims telling an Islamic state how to operate and punishing them for not abiding would do no good and likely be counterproductive. Its just like we don't want Saudi Arabia to tell us how we should treat women or Jews.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

I am starting to think we may need a new section called Long Time Guy argues with everyone.

I'm not really sure who they are though. We have veganfan here and I'd be interested to hear his thoughts. How does he feel about cartoons of the Prophet? Does he condemn these types of killings but only with a "but"... tacked on? I don't really consider that "moderate".

What are the qualities that differentiate a "moderate" from a "radical"? if it's not actual beliefs but rather nothing more than the act of pulling the trigger, I would submit that there are no moderates at all.

I am starting to think we may need a new section called Long Time Guy argues with everyone.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

It actually does make sense. You're a non Muslim that is attempting to tell Muslims how to behave as we speak.

It is really not about arguing it's about making valid points. There are people on here that seek to argue with me. I'm not going to be deterred from speaking my mind just because certain people don't agree with me. I'm not concerned about being one of the guys. That matters not to me.

Most American Muslims I've ever known just want everyone to get along and seemingly put much less emphasis on religion that their parents or grandparents.

I know that my words here aren't going to make any meaningful difference in Saudi Arabia either.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

Stop whining. No one cares.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

I wasn't born any different than a Muslim child born in Saudi Arabia.

Yeah, I know guys like that too, but I'm not sure if they're really Muslims. At that point, they're just like most of the Catholics I know, who only follow doctrine when it doesn't interrupt the Bears game. Or like the Jews I grew up with, many of whom consider themselves atheists. Now it's not really religion, but just culture. I have no issue with a guy eating Halal. Just don't chop my fucking head off!

Your words no. U.S. Government possibly yes. Even it the words and sanctions have no effect it would still let their govt. and the rest of the world know that the U.S. Govt doesn't approve. We are asking Muslims to do something that we really aren't willing to do ourselves.

Are you saying we sanction an Islamic state because of their religious beliefs and it will somehow help things?

America: Hey Saudi Arabia, your religion sucks and we are punishing you for it!
Saudi Arabia: Oh ok, we'll change now because we don't want it to be hard to get iPhones!

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

You wouldn't be sanctioning them for their religious beliefs you would be sanctioning them for their human rights violations.