I agree with you in that we should never have been there in the first place. We should let that part of the world to rot. Funny thing we want to become more independent of them yet the moron in the White House and the Dummycraps want to keep us from doing so. Whose side are they fucking on?
Thing is with the way they view the world if we turn all that will happen is make things worse by making us look like even bigger pussies. Right now we are in a no win situation.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

You have to change the hearts and minds of the next generation. We provide all the ammunition they need for their propaganda machine. That kid that was 4 years old in 2001 was taught and shown his entire life that America and the rest of the West hates Muslims. He is now an adult and he has seen enough evidence to believe it's true. Violence hasn't changed anything but create another group of people that hate us. Unless endless war is the goal we need a new strategy. An idea just can't be defeated with a bomb. As long as we are bombing that idea will continue to spread across the globe like a cancer.[/quote]

So you want to educate while troops are being killed in Afghanistan and people are killed simply for printing a cartoon of Mohammed? Radical Islamist terrorist groups don't believe in negotiation or peace...their demands are simple: conform to Islam or be killed. Even Muslims are killed simply for refusing to go along with terrorist demands so their philosophy is hypocritical.

I acknowledge innocent people have died during our operations but what happened on 9/11 did not involve taking out military targets (save the Pentagon). The "torture" we were accused of are child's play compared to what terrorists do to their prisoners, but since the media chooses not to report that then we are portrayed as the evil Americans. The silent majority of Islam needs to speak up and turn in people who preach terrorism in the name of a religion; not every single Muslim takes the Quran to heart and actually believe in freedom to express your religious and political beliefs in a legal matter.[/quote]

Our troops can't be killed if they aren't there. Propaganda has a much better chance of being effective than bombs. We've spent trillions of dollars and lost thousands of lives and the only thing that has changed is the cancer has spread. We can't contain it now. People that look like all of us are signing up to fight us. This just isn't a war that can be won with a bomb IMO. What is your solution?[/quote]


It was never contained; Afghanistan was an Al-Qaeda training ground as well as Yemen. Iran shares the same beliefs and lends financial support to terrorist organizations. With the increase of technology has led to these groups being able to get their bullshit out to impressionable young minds through the internet who think joining up with these terrorists is "the cool thing to do" because it is anti-society and anti-American.

What do we do? Pressure nations that fund terrorism (Saudi Arabia, etc.) and threaten them that economic sanctions will occur if they continue their practices. Support the moderate parties of Iran that are pro-Western and do not believe in the annihilation of Israel. Reintroduce our interrogation methods- they foiled many terrorists plots. Stop being afraid of being labeled bigots or stereotyping and pursue evidence that shows terrorist groups in our country. Radical Islamists should be treated just as seriously as white extremists and anti-government groups are. Identify these individuals as being radical Islamists and encourage peaceful Muslim leaders to denounce any form of violence in the name of Allah. Continue our military operations in Afganistan and Iraq; if they want to kill Americans, we will kill them first.

When we first started our war on terrorism after the events of 9/11, terrorists were on the run and were quiet for quite a while. With the withdraw of troops and the government's refusal to continue to use the phrase "War on terrorism", it emboldened groups and gave them an opportunity to rebuild their organizations and create new terrorist plots.

Will we ever eliminate Muslim extremists? No, we won't because it has always been present in the world but we can reduce it to a point will their power is weakened and they don't have the structure or the finances to keep these attacks going.


Nas, the simple fact that me and you have the freedom to discuss this subject, despite differing viewpoints, is a testament to the freedoms we enjoy and ones that these assholes seek to eliminate.

Sorry to go all Sini in my post, but this is a subject I have personal experience with and very strong feelings about this.

Nas, the simple fact that me and you have the freedom to discuss this subject, despite differing viewpoints, is a testament to the freedoms we enjoy and ones that these assholes seek to eliminate.[/quote] Think about the future terrorists that have are now being nurtured as a result of our actions today. The innocent people that are being killed as a result of drone strikes have children that are growing up as we are writing this. They may not have had a reason to hate the United States before but they sure do now. Every Muslim does not hate the U.S. quite frankly. People have also chosen to ignore the actions of the United States and in some cases it has been to the U.S. s peril. You can't keep minimizing the actions of the U.S. actions can have consequences. The actions of terrorists are reprehensible and they should not go unpunished. It seems as though there are some that want to declare a holy war and that is not the answer either.

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my seven year old can draw better than that.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Man the amount of self-loathing and mollycoddling for the bad guys on here is amazing. If the Orcs from Lord of the Rings suddenly came out of the ground and where hacking people up you all would be crying for restraint

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Think about the future terrorists that have are now being nurtured as a result of our actions today. The innocent people that are being killed as a result of drone strikes have children that are growing up as we are writing this. They may not have had a reason to hate the United States before but they sure do now. Every Muslim does not hate the U.S. quite frankly. People have also chosen to ignore the actions of the United States and in some cases it has been to the U.S. s peril. You can't keep minimizing the actions of the U.S. actions can have consequences. The actions of terrorists are reprehensible and they should not go unpunished. It seems as though there are some that want to declare a holy war and that is not the answer either.[/quote]

Perhaps if they are so upset about their loved ones being killed, than they should do us a favor and kill the terrorists themselves. Then the drone strikes will stop in their areas.

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

Frank it was contained to a certain part of the world and if we are honest we were responsible for some of the hate. Overthrowing a democratic government in Iran and invading Iraq for monetary reasons. The same people we supported in the 80's became our enemy.

Torturing people and using whatever words you think is proper won't kill an idea either.

You're remembering the wars wrong. We were losing in Iraq and had pretty much abandoned Afghanistan until 2009.

Sanctions may work but we have to get out of bed with the Saudi's and others first. There are many things we can do to hurt their recruiting but unless we nuke the world we won't kill an idea. It sounds like you agree too.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

You guys keep talking about a "moderate" Muslim , seems I need to do a little definition here:

There is a $50 in the middle of an intersection. In one street is Santa Clause, In another is The Easter Bunny,In another is a West Hating Muslim and in the Fourth is a Moderate Muslim. Who gets the $50?



Easy the West hating Muslim cuze the other 3 are figments of your fucking imagination.

Now on a serious note, the bad guy Muslims have won why? easy,all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to remain silent. Not that I think there are any "good" Muslims but you get the point.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

The Drone attacks that we are so cavalierly choosing to dismiss are serving to birth an entire group of future terrorists. This group may not have had a reason to hate the U.S. before but they sure have a reason to hate us now. You will not be able to wipe out terrorism this way. Not every Muslim hates the U.S. but they will surely be taught to if the rhetoric continues to be anti Islamic. Speaking of the KKK they use to carry out many of their attacks in the name of Christianity. Suppose all Christians were lumped in with them. How would that make you feel? ( considering of course that you are Christian.) The more you hear some talk about it the more you get the feeling that they are ready for some sort of religious war. Islam is the second largest religion in the world. If all Muslims felt the way that the terrorists feel trust me you would know. We have to separate the actions of terrorists from those of other Muslims. We have to stop perpetuating the myth that they speak for all Muslims. They no more speak for all Muslims than the KKK spoke for all Christians or all racists for that matter.

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Have a good night.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

This is going off the tracks. Let's meet somewhere, Nas. Bacardi is on me.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Deal!

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Well then the other fucking Muslims need to do more than complain about being lumped in with the others and do like Christians did here and turn people in and or go after the KKK. Instead the moan and bitch and stick their hands out for more help. Bullshit, one of the so called "Pillars" of Islam is charity. The fucking super rich shieks and princes should start making life livable for their subjects instead of spending $600,000 to speak for 15 minutes alone with Kristen Stewart at the fucking Oscars last year.

Once again,
All you people defending Islam go read the Holy books and then come back and tell me how you feel about it after. It is a death cult,perpetrated to control an uneducated mass to conquer the world.
Here as I think most of you are too lazy or think I make shit up is Churchill on Islam written over 100 years ago

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Groups like Al Qaeda have always hated us for our alliances with Israel, our acceptance of homosexuality, and our freedom of religion and speech. Drones were not around in 1994 for the first WTC bombing; since people in those areas do not have access to media that shows the atrocities committed by terrorist groups, of course they will blame us. Terrorist groups are very adept at using PR to their advantage by portraying us as the aggressors. Maybe they should realize that allowing terrorists to roam free is putting them in danger; neighborhoods in this country have driven out gangs because of the level of violence it has brought to their area.

I don't lump all Muslims in with the terrorists; I've met people from different faiths and even lived in England for 2 years and met many Muslims who did reject the distorted views of Al Qaeda and people of a similar mindset. In order to destroy radical Islamists, we need Muslims' help in identifying and punishing those who give Islam a bad name. To put it in perspective, I guarantee you that not every family of the victims of 9/11 or other terrorist attacks group every single Muslim into one group.

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

I'm done for the night on this topic. Good discussion by everyone.

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

I won't refute since everyone is checking out for the night. If you pick this up later I will be happy to address this point.

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I suggest everyone watch Real Time with Bill Maher tonight, or on demand.
It's a good one, and I don't really even like Bill Maher.

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Just chillin' like Garret Quillin.

Recording now. I will watch when the kids go to bed.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

You gotta love the female terrorist.

We're all gonna die today, right? Become martyrs, right?

All Four: Yeah!!!! 1...2...3...Break!!!!!

Male Terrorists: Where the hell is she?

the idea is to have a revolution. nothing wrong with that. their morals are whats fucked up. they can say whatever they want, the reality is they steal 10 year old girls and rape them until their bodies are too messed up to be enjoyable anymore. there is no sympathy from this side of the world nor should there be. and the only reason they are having success is because we are doing everything possible to let the muslim community show their true colors on their own. what we didnt expect was true muslim colors to be in isis corner. now we are against an idea that just isnt right to any blue american. and there are always defectors in every war. the few american idiots who joined isis are vastly outnumbered by those who commit other violent crimes right here inside this country.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

I checked my scorecard this morning:

Muslims: Advocating for genocide
Chas: Advocating for genocide

Who's the bad guy here?

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Not advocating just saying we are in a struggle for the ultimate future of the world.
I was looking for quotes from people smarter than me on Islam came on a few doozies
here is one:


You know who said that? Gene Simmons, now when he has a firm grasp of the sitution you know something is wrong.

.........Frank Zappa

...John Quincy Adams

...Double shot by Bill Mahr

So DB what should we do? Our enemies will only rest when we are either enslaved or destroyed? When the Nazis where chanting this shit we beat them down. When Japan wanted to create the CoAsia Prosperity Sphere we dropped atomic bombs on them. They used to do some of the same shit these guys where doing as well like beheading killing entire villages and such. So come on mr smart guy what do we do.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Actually the Nazis were not beaten down when they were chanting this shit or even for chanting this shit. The Holocaust was going on for yrs before America got involved and America didn't get involved because of the Holocaust or Hitler s propaganda regarding world domination. That's false.

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I love chas view on history. What would a chad history book look like?

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

It would have a white cover.

If you read history of the people at the top of American politics they where trying to get us involved with the war against Hitler from the get go. It was the traditional American reluctance to be involved in a war not of their making that kept the USA out of it.

Um go watch Why we Fight by Frank Capra. Once again you all attack the messenger but can not refute the message because of its truth.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

There were a few people that wanted to engage the Nazis but they were overruled by the isolationist s obviously. The fact still remains that the U.S. did not become involved in WWII because of Hitlers views regarding world domination or genocide. In fact the Bulk of fighting the Nazis was left to the Russians. If there was anyone that stood tall against Hitler it was them. The bulk of U.S. fighting was done fighting the Japanese

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Really? So 15% is greater part of the whole because according the our agreement with Britain and the rest of the United Nations that was the percentage of our war effort that went toward the Pacific theater. At first the majority of American Divisional strength went to the Pacific it was needed to stabilize the situation. America had to continually reaffirm that German was still the main priority, notice one major operation in 1942 in Pacific with 2 Divisions(1st Marine and AMerical) compare that to Torch 5 division(2 Armored and 3 infantry). The reason it seems that there was soo much American forces is because until the last year of the war they where basically the only ones there(Aussies excepted).
Dude, your lack of knowledge of world history is amazing, I swear I think McNown is typing the keys on your computer.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

The largest infantry was used fighting the Russians. It is well known and non debatable. I'm sure you however will debate it anyway Germany ' s ill fated March on Moscow is wisely regarded as the turning point in the war. I actually have a Masters degree in History thus I'm confident in my knowledge on the subject

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Well hold on, I'm sure chas has a master's degree in something too...

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

The US of all the major countries suffered the fewest number of casualties. The other 85% of US effort was spent fighting the Germans according to your sources. Even if that is true it still does not mean that the United States was the country that stood tall versus the Nazis. If Russia didn't push the Nazis back the outcome of the war may have been different. You have provided a number of false statements here.

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