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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:26 am 
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cpguy wrote:
Straily is a 4/5 at best.


I suspect that is wrong, but time will tell.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:29 am 
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I have to like the Astro end of this better, but it's a justifiable move.... it keeps Alcantara glued to the bench or in AAA if nothing else.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:36 am 
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If you look at his stadium splits Wrigley Field is almost at the bottom. OPS in the 500s. Meh.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:37 am 
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Apologist wrote:
I have to like the Astro end of this better, but it's a justifiable move.... it keeps Alcantara glued to the bench or in AAA if nothing else.

Utility infielder and a failed (so far) pitching prospect for a starting center fielder/ lead-off man?
Yep, the Astros really fleeced the Cubs on this one!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:38 am 
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SteveSarley wrote:
Apologist wrote:
I have to like the Astro end of this better, but it's a justifiable move.... it keeps Alcantara glued to the bench or in AAA if nothing else.

Utility infielder and a failed (so far) pitching prospect for a starting center fielder/ lead-off man?
Yep, the Astros really fleeced the Cubs on this one!!!



If Straily has failed, so has Baez.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:39 am 
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Losing Valbuena hurts. He's a nice versatile player playing for cheap.

Theo is putting a lot of faith in the kiddos to not biff 3B and 2B. Not like La Stella or Alcantara are proven either as utility players.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:41 am 
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cpguy wrote:
Jesse Rogers ‏@ESPNChiCubs 48s48 seconds ago

Cubs turn a waiver pickup in Valbuena into legit top of order guy. Good pick up good development good trade



The Cubs fired the manager that did this.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:42 am 
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The Cubs are giving Daniel Bard another chance to revive a career that once looked so promising.

Cubs VP Jason McLeod confirmed Bard has signed a minor-league deal and will go to spring training trying to find what had made him an elite setup guy with the Boston Red Sox.

“There’s a lot of history there,” McLeod said Sunday. “We’ve been with him through a lot.”

As Cubs Convention closed down at the Sheraton Chicago Hotel & Towers, it’s a reminder that all these prospects aren’t going to make it and enjoy an uninterrupted 10-year run in the big leagues.

McLeod had been Boston’s amateur scouting director when the Red Sox selected Bard in the first round of the 2006 out of the University of North Carolina. Bard eventually emerged as a weapon out of the Red Sox bullpen in 2010 (1.93 ERA) and 2011 (74 strikeouts in 73 innings) before everything unraveled.

It’s a long story, but Bard tried to transition to the rotation and had major problems with his command. He developed issues with his right shoulder and eventually needed surgery for thoracic outlet syndrome. He hasn’t pitched in the big leagues since April 2013.

Cubs executives have been through this before. Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer knew Bard well from their time together at Fenway Park and claimed him off waivers in September 2013, but he never actually pitched for the team in a game.

“He’s supposed to be ready to throw,” McLeod said. “With everything that’s happened – coming through the injuries and some of the control issues he had – we’ll see where he’s at.”


It’s a long shot, but the Cubs hope new Triple-A Iowa pitching coach Mike Cather – a former instructor in the Red Sox organization – might be able to help make a difference.

“He and Daniel have a really good relationship,” McLeod said. “Back in the early days in Boston, after Daniel’s draft year, he really struggled out of the gate. His first full year was a terrible year.

“We sent Daniel to Hawaii that fall with Mike Cather and that’s when we made him a reliever and it just clicked. Not saying that’s the reason or anything, but that’s another voice Dan feels really comfortable with.”


He was a great reliever and they tried to make him a starter and he wasn't the same. Head case but worth the shot.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:46 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
SteveSarley wrote:
Apologist wrote:
I have to like the Astro end of this better, but it's a justifiable move.... it keeps Alcantara glued to the bench or in AAA if nothing else.

Utility infielder and a failed (so far) pitching prospect for a starting center fielder/ lead-off man?
Yep, the Astros really fleeced the Cubs on this one!!!



If Straily has failed, so has Baez.

Straily fell off of the top prospect lists for his last team and for all minor leaguers.
Baez has not.
Somebody must see something missing in Straily.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:51 am 
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This trade

-Cleary shows Cubs think Bryant is a 3B
-Allows Alcantara to be a super utility/Zobrist type
-Is very low risk. Fowler on a one year deal doesn't block Almora in 2016/7


Hard to be wowed by this, but I don't hate it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:17 pm 
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Northside_Dan wrote:
This trade

-Cleary shows Cubs think Bryant is a 3B
-Allows Alcantara to be a super utility/Zobrist type
-Is very low risk. Fowler on a one year deal doesn't block Almora in 2016/7

Hard to be wowed by this, but I don't hate it.


- Not sure about this. Bryant could still find his way into LF by the end of the season. Both Coghlan and/or Denorfia could be flipped when the time comes, easily. Baez, Castro, or Russell can still easily end this season at 3B.
- Yes, or he starts the year in AAA. And maybe stays for awhile.
- Well, Almora needs to prove a lot before we worry about him in CF. Fowler is proven as an above average option in CF.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:32 pm 
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Like this trade a lot.

Valbuena was a good player. Better than most gave him credit for, but looked to be riding the bench for the Cubs after the first week of the season. Strailly had a good year and a bad year. A possible turnaround candidate for the Cubs, but the back end of the rotation is filled with them at this point.

To me, it would seem Fowler is a perfect fit for the Cubs at this point. Moves Alcantara to a super utility role, which the Cubs will need when Baez doesn't make the team out of Spring Training.

Your lineup once Bryant is called up

CF Fowler
SS Castro
1B Rizzo
RF Soler
3B Bryant
C Montero
2B La Strella
LF Coughlan/Denofria


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:23 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
Like this trade a lot.

Valbuena was a good player. Better than most gave him credit for, but looked to be riding the bench for the Cubs after the first week of the season. Strailly had a good year and a bad year. A possible turnaround candidate for the Cubs, but the back end of the rotation is filled with them at this point.

To me, it would seem Fowler is a perfect fit for the Cubs at this point. Moves Alcantara to a super utility role, which the Cubs will need when Baez doesn't make the team out of Spring Training.

Your lineup once Bryant is called up

CF Fowler
SS Castro
1B Rizzo
RF Soler
3B Bryant
C Montero
2B La Strella
LF Coughlan/Denofria


I expect that's correct except with La Strella batting second and everyone else moving down one spot.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:26 pm 
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Will Rizzo now guarantee a NLDS win?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:44 pm 
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SteveSarley wrote:
Apologist wrote:
I have to like the Astro end of this better, but it's a justifiable move.... it keeps Alcantara glued to the bench or in AAA if nothing else.

Utility infielder and a failed (so far) pitching prospect for a starting center fielder/ lead-off man?
Yep, the Astros really fleeced the Cubs on this one!!!


While i like fleece as a comfortable winter garment, nobody said anything about a fleecing. You have to view this from an organizational standpoint. Cub gets 1 arb year of Fowler (who asked for $10.8MM). Astro gets a starting 3B or utility man for 2 years of control, and a pitching prospect who has a chance to be a middle rotation guy for at least 5-6 years of control. They also probably believe Springer can handle CF for the next few seasons. Now if Epstoyer is able to extend Fowler, or at minimum he can hold down the fort until Almora is ready, the pieces they gave up are fine. Houston has all the upside in this deal, which is why I said I like it on their end a little more.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:46 pm 
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Apologist wrote:
SteveSarley wrote:
Apologist wrote:
I have to like the Astro end of this better, but it's a justifiable move.... it keeps Alcantara glued to the bench or in AAA if nothing else.

Utility infielder and a failed (so far) pitching prospect for a starting center fielder/ lead-off man?
Yep, the Astros really fleeced the Cubs on this one!!!


While i like fleece as a comfortable winter garment, nobody said anything about a fleecing. You have to view this from an organizational standpoint. Cub gets 1 arb year of Fowler (who asked for $10.8MM). Astro gets a starting 3B or utility man for 2 years of control, and a pitching prospect who has a chance to be a middle rotation guy for at least 5-6 years of control. They also probably believe Springer can handle CF for the next few seasons. Now if Epstoyer is able to extend Fowler, or at minimum he can hold down the fort until Almora is ready, the pieces they gave up are fine. Houston has all the upside in this deal, which is why I said I like it on their end a little more.

Except now you're thinking solely long term, which is what Cubs fans and baseball analysts got used to for the Cubs.

But, this move helps the Cubs compete in 2015, without hurting the team's chances going forward. The Cubs still have quite a few back end of the rotation choices. But if the Cubs have a chance for a wild card this season, which I think they do, let's improve those chances. And this move does that.

Now Houston is the team that can worry about 3 years from now.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:53 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Except now you're thinking solely long term, which is what Cubs fans and baseball analysts got used to for the Cubs.

But, this move helps the Cubs compete in 2015, without hurting the team's chances going forward. The Cubs still have quite a few back end of the rotation choices. But if the Cubs have a chance for a wild card this season, which I think they do, let's improve those chances. And this move does that.

Now Houston is the team that can worry about 3 years from now.


I agree with that. This isn't a bad move. It's something that will help them right now. Valbuena is a utility man. No great loss. The risk is that Straily figures out how to handle his huge stuff and is a front end guy a couple years down the road. The thing is, he isn't that right now. You can't always make moves based on what might be. Fowler is a proven guy.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:57 pm 
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Forget about Valbuena. Whatever. This team cannot contend in this division this year. Why not see if you can straighten Dan out? Why do you want a CF that you only have for one year? Play for next year. Let the division get one year worse, because it will. I don't understand this sudden shift in philosophy a year early. And I'd rather see Bryant in the OF, but whatever.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:59 pm 
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Welcome to the fold, JORR! :P

Maybe Straily does figure it out. Maybe Baez hits .280 next season with 40 HR. It is a constant struggle to try to make every move into a huge win for your organization.

But to obtain proven talent, you have to give up proven talent or the prospect of future talent. And hope that the guy you get overachieves or the guy(s) you lose end up less than their projections.
City of Fools wrote:
Forget about Valbuena. Whatever. This team cannot contend in this division this year. Why not see if you can straighten Dan out? Why do you want a CF that you only have for one year? Play for next year. Let the division get one year worse, because it will. I don't understand this sudden shift in philosophy a year early. And I'd rather see Bryant in the OF, but whatever.

Let's play to lose every year. Maybe we can grab an underachieving prospect from every team over the next two seasons and really give the NL Central the what-for in 2018 or 2019! Yeah buddy!

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Last edited by IMU on Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:59 pm 
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Sarley might also not realize that unlike Frank and dolphin, it is possible for non-Cub fans to post in Cub threads without trolling

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:03 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Welcome to the fold, JORR! :P

Maybe Straily does figure it out. Maybe Baez hits .280 next season with 40 HR. It is a constant struggle to try to make every move into a huge win for your organization.

But to obtain proven talent, you have to give up proven talent or the prospect of future talent. And hope that the guy you get overachieves or the guy(s) you lose end up less than their projections.


That's always been my position. I don't really understand City of Fools above. The Cubs have finished fifth the last five years, I think. At some point you have to try to win. Do I think they're a powerhouse contender this season? No. If things break a certain way, can they win that division? Sure. But you're going to need guys like Fowler instead of a patchwork of guys you hope might do things they've never done before.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:04 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Apologist wrote:
SteveSarley wrote:
Apologist wrote:
I have to like the Astro end of this better, but it's a justifiable move.... it keeps Alcantara glued to the bench or in AAA if nothing else.

Utility infielder and a failed (so far) pitching prospect for a starting center fielder/ lead-off man?
Yep, the Astros really fleeced the Cubs on this one!!!


While i like fleece as a comfortable winter garment, nobody said anything about a fleecing. You have to view this from an organizational standpoint. Cub gets 1 arb year of Fowler (who asked for $10.8MM). Astro gets a starting 3B or utility man for 2 years of control, and a pitching prospect who has a chance to be a middle rotation guy for at least 5-6 years of control. They also probably believe Springer can handle CF for the next few seasons. Now if Epstoyer is able to extend Fowler, or at minimum he can hold down the fort until Almora is ready, the pieces they gave up are fine. Houston has all the upside in this deal, which is why I said I like it on their end a little more.

Except now you're thinking solely long term, which is what Cubs fans and baseball analysts got used to for the Cubs.

But, this move helps the Cubs compete in 2015, without hurting the team's chances going forward. The Cubs still have quite a few back end of the rotation choices. But if the Cubs have a chance for a wild card this season, which I think they do, let's improve those chances. And this move does that.

Now Houston is the team that can worry about 3 years from now.


Just because you are now competing, you should never not think long-term. The rest of the Central outside of the Pie Rat is aging or retooling.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:08 pm 
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OMG,they dumped my guy in Valbuena! Nothing great but take a look at the rest of MLB at 3rd. Valbuena was better than most at fielding and hitting. I like getting another OBP guy to go with Chris Coughlin in LF. Straily was just a guy. The Cubs have some good young starters if they are needed.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:12 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Welcome to the fold, JORR! :P

Maybe Straily does figure it out. Maybe Baez hits .280 next season with 40 HR. It is a constant struggle to try to make every move into a huge win for your organization.

But to obtain proven talent, you have to give up proven talent or the prospect of future talent. And hope that the guy you get overachieves or the guy(s) you lose end up less than their projections.


That's always been my position. I don't really understand City of Fools above. The Cubs have finished fifth the last five years, I think. At some point you have to try to win. Do I think they're a powerhouse contender this season? No. If things break a certain way, can they win that division? Sure. But you're going to need guys like Fowler instead of a patchwork of guys you hope might do things they've never done before.

break a certain way? There are three teams better than them in the division. That's a lot of breaks. That's bad baseball thought.

And you're supposed to build from within. THAT'S THE WHOLE PREMISE. Now everyone wants to ignore Alcantara, forget about Baez, Soler, et al. Either do it the way you were going to, suck one more year, be contenders by 2016, or admit you were wrong in the way you've done this.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:14 pm 
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Apologist wrote:
Just because you are now competing, you should never not think long-term. The rest of the Central outside of the Pie Rat is aging or retooling.

I said solely long term.

I was a fan of The Plan, I'll have you remember. Long term approach is good.

This move does not sacrifice long term goals.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:17 pm 
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I think COF is drunk.

3 teams better? Definitely the Cardinals. I wouldn't say the Pirates or Brewers are definitely better. All should be reasonably predicted between 80-86 wins I'd say (Cubs/Brew/Pirates).

How does this go against building from within? Who is forgetting about Alcantara, Baez, Soler? I'm so confused about your post.

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Last edited by Northside_Dan on Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:18 pm 
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Apologist, I don't think Valbuena's value was going to be any higher than this offseason. His at bats with the Cubs were going to be taken away.

2 WAR players don't grow on trees but flipping a waiver pick up into Dexter Fowler is alright. I'm with you that it's likely a slight loss. It's nice to see draft and develop strategy possibly work. Trade surplus to satisfy a need.

I'm just happy the days of trading 5 prospects for Garza are over. Blech.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:18 pm 
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:lol: CoF doing work

No one is forgetting about Baez or Soler :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:19 pm 
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The Cubs are smarter than I thought they were. Cutting bait on Alcantara is the right move.


Last edited by America on Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:20 pm 
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The move is fine. Works for both teams.

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