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It's half desperation, half stupidity. We've run out of fans, animals, and executives to blame. Now we have to blame the city. I never thought to blame the rooftops for Alex Gonzalez bobbling the ball, as if not having them there would have empowered the Cubs to buy a better shortstop -- besides, they did next year and did worse. I didn't blame the rooftops when the 2004 Cubs spat the bit down the stretch, as if not having them there would have empowered the Cubs to hire relievers who weren't as cunty as Kent Mercker and Kyle Farnsworth. And I sure as shit couldn't blame the rooftops in 2007 after Jim Hendry broke the bank on a bunch of free agents. But now here we are, buying the big lie that the Cubs can't compete like they ought to because some people are running some ersatz skyboxes across the street. Reaganomics has been disproven to everyone but the Chicago Cubs fans who take their marching orders from Dan Bernstein. It's uncanny.

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Pretty obvious that the Cubs didn't win the World Series because they didn't have an attached hotel to the stadium.

If only Conrad Hilton had bought the Cubs instead of Thaddeus Wrigley!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

cubs fans take their marching orders from a self-avowed sox fan? why that'd be like white people taking their marching orders from white trash, if we go by generalizations about the team's fanbases, of course.

with the rooftops i've never had the desire to go to one in the first place, so i don't really care about their plight. i couldn't fathom all that $$$ to sit way the hell up there across the street from the ballpark, and while i think some/most of them have "all you can eat/drink" deals to go along with the $75+ per person pricetag, i have this weird thing where when i go to a baseball game i want to see baseball. if i wanted to eat and/or drink i'd simply just make something or go to the liquor store and come back home to do it that much cheaper.

of course, i'm not the target demographic for the cubs or even FOX. MLB tends to focus on winning over people who aren't baseball fans, knowing that actual baseball fans are their marks and they're going to put up with copious amounts of bullshit because they're addicted to their product.... and ask you friendly local neighborhood drug dealer what the best kind of customer is (a return customer). as such, i'd say that the rooftops appeal to that lowest common denominator of people who want to do things once just so they could say they've done them, kind of like that time my old friend the smartest kid in school was off in college @ wesleyan and asked if i could come down for his 21st birthday and bring some pot because he wanted to try it for the special occasion.... in the form of pot brownies, of course.

i can see the arguments of both sides of this debate. for all the people who say that the businesses make their $$$ off of usurping the cubs' product, you'll have somebody else pop up and be like "so does the olive garden owe woodfield a cut of their $$$ because they make a lot of $$$ from being in close proximity to the mall?" and the arguments from both sides will prattle on forever until big $$$ inevitably wins because that's just how the world works. c'est la vie.

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This is why "those leeches," as the B&B loyalists call them, aren't really in competition with the Cubs. They're partners, selling a unique experience. Nobody is saying "hmm, let's go to a Cubs game. Should we sit in the grandstand, the bleachers, or just hang out on the roof of a house across the street?" It's not exactly a substitute good here.

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Are you admitting the disingenuousness of your previous post or the fact that George's tenants don't know much about his financial condition?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

yeah i had a friend who once told me about going to the rooftops for a game and i was like "why the hell would you do that? you can probably sit INSIDE the stadium for cheaper" and he said "well i haven't done it before and i figure i'll do it once to see what it's all about and at the very least i'll get a nice buzz on with their free beer" -- he's the kind of guy who circa age 34 has already lived on the 34th floor of a lakeshore high rise apartment/condo building, ~6 blocks from wall st in lower manhattan, and now is out in oakland. he's definitely the "i wanna try it all" type, and that's why i think he's the perfect demographic for the rooftops.

people like my freshly-retired baseball uncle who does ~75+ games/season would just give me "the look" (i.e. "what the hell is wrong with you?") if i asked if he's ever done a rooftop. i think amongst the hardcore baseball people there's also a belief that you'd be surrounded by WOO CUBBIES!!!! fratboy/idiots if you did a rooftop game, whereas the "real baseball people" are actually IN the ballpark. my uncle takes a lot of pride in knowing people who work in/around the stadium, and i'm pretty sure he's been invited to a party in the luxury boxes @ miller park by this one guy who works his entrance gate. the rooftops are outside of the bubble of that "baseball universe" that attracts the hardcore marks, so they're always going to be on the outside looking in.... which seems to be their lot in life.

so am i correct in understanding that the rooftops that don't have blocked views have cut the cubs in on their profits and the ones with the blocked views are all "fuck you, we had a deal!" and therefore blocked?

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Honest question - Who (name names) said the Cubs haven't won a World Series because of the rooftops?

As for the Bernstein leading Cubs fan....really.
The Deerfield Sox fan?

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Kenny Williams fell for the banana in the tailpipe

The rooftops are supposed to give the Cubs 17% of their gross. I'm sure there has always been plenty of creative bookkeeping. With the Cubs breaking the contract, I can't see anyone sending a check going forward.

I believe Ricketts now has at least some interest in five of the fifteen or so rooftops. Obviously, it's in his interest not to block those.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Pasting his exact words from a newspaper is disingenuous?
I know the guy has tons of money and have always disliked him.....but not for being rich.
I was shocked to see his words but not shocked he baled on the nut Beth Murphy.

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Kenny Williams fell for the banana in the tailpipe

His name begins with an R and ends with an N with a ogersparkbrya in the middle

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

If you know it's bullshit it is. George is out for George. He was never a hardliner the way bernstein portrayed him. He doesn't need the money or the headaches.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

B&B facebook group is big on hating the rooftop owners because Dan said to, right down to saying that the Cubs can't spend what they need to spend to win a World Series if those leeches are there.

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bernstein is obviously a Cubs fan. I don't think there's any doubt about that now. Talking about Ivan Calderon or wearing an Andy the Clown nose ain't gonna change that. He's on the radio too much to hide his real feelings.

And there is clearly a feeling that a lack of modern amenities and/or advertising has prevented the Cubs from doing something. If not, why does the fan care so much? I have a hard time believing that people hate the rooftops because they are making money that should go in a Ricketts bank account.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

The rooftops and the signage they could not have because of them are often cited as lost revenue that causes them to not be able to compete with other places. It was on the list with "They should sell the naming rights to Wrigley" and "We need a CUBS network".

Of course no one said specifically "They didn't win the World Series because of the rooftops". They simply said two things that are related enough to make that an obvious conclusion.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Ricketts has successfully appealed to our belief in capitalism. "He has the right to make as much money as he can on his business!" But somehow I don't see the B&B facebook group protesting outside the rooftop buildings holding signs and stuff. "Hey, hey, ho, ho, open bars have got to go! 2, 4, 6, 8, Theo won't appreciate!" They just sit and bitch about something that doesn't affect them and carry water for a rich guy who carries water for even richer guys.

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As a Cubs fan and a baseball fan, why would the rooftops be that near and dear to you? The organization you love doesn't benefit all that much from them, and they have nothing to do with the product on the field. They are a terrible place to watch a baseball game.

This isn't about picking the side of one rich guy over some other rich guys.

You're a fan of the Cubs organization. These are moves that MIGHT improve the product, and definitely won't hurt the product.

If you're a fan of Wrigley field and the atmosphere, this is a different story. But please don't call yourself a Cubs fan, or pretend you have any interest in the success of the baseball team.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

They're not near and dear to me. They're also not my sworn enemies, either, like they've become for Bernstein's foot soldiers. I just figure they're one of the idiosyncrasies that help make the Cubs the Cubs. I don't love Ronnie Woo Woo, weirdo ball hawks, or guys waving W flags, but I like that weird traditions and institutions happened organically and continue to this day. I have no burning desire to watch a game from a rooftop (though I wouldn't be averse to it on a nice summer day), but I'd rather have them be part of the whole Wrigleyville gestalt than not.

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Looks like we have a "rooftops hurt the Cubs chance to win" card being played!

So, IMU, let's say the Cubs got rid of the rooftops, the ivy, the board outside, and basically turned the park into Generic Baseball Stadium Field but it made them a few extra bucks. You don't think that would be a big deal?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm not going to agree with anyone that says that the Cubs have missed out on multiple world series because of the rooftops. But I independently can't stand them. They look so "corporate" now. Never understood the draw, until I was invited up to one for free, and then I REALLY didn't understand the draw.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Are they more or less corporate than a giant TD Ameritrade sign?

But that sign is giving them the money they need to compete! Don't you see? It all trickles down. Ask Miami!

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wait.... what? are these people going as far as saying that the cubs are losing out on revenue (which of course would be 100% spent on bettering the roster and not fattening up a rickettsian bank account, just like giving tax/breaks to the wealthy so the wealth can "trickle down" to the lower classes, which compelled george carlin to observe "THEY'RE LITERALLY TELLING YOU THAT THEY'RE PISSING ON YOU!!!!" =)

AHEM. so are they saying that the cubs are losing out on revenue because there's people watching the game from a rooftop across the street, and therefore everyone who spends $$$ to sit up there would otherwise spend that $$$ at wrigley field if they weren't able to sit up on the rooftops? like i illustrated with the tale of my friend who actually did a rooftop game once, he wasn't interested in going to the ballgame itself as much as he was interested in "the rooftop experience" --- IF PEOPLE REALLY WANT TO WATCH BASEBALL THEY'LL GO TO THE DAMN STADIUM.

that's like saying that everyone who downloads a movie is cheating the MPAA/studios out of $$$ because if they couldn't download it for free they would have spent $$$ on the product. or well it's not even like that.... it's more like the thing where microsoft was kicking around an idea where they'd use the xbox kinect to detect if there's more than one person in the room, and if someone "rented" a movie and it detected that there were more people in the room it would charge you more $$$ because those people are wrongly getting to see the movie for free, whereas if they weren't able to be in the vicinity of someone who purchased the right-to-see-the/movie then they would have to go pay to see the movie themselves.

man i hate it when these big business people claim that everyone who tries out something because it's free would have 100%-for-sure bought it if they didn't get it for free. by that logic why do stores give out free samples? THE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE BOUGHT THAT PIZZA IF YOU DIDN'T GIVE THEM A FREE BITE OF IT! fucking dumbasses!

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I hadn't thought about that...it will be interesting if the remaining rooftop owners stop making payments, and what the Cubs do about it.

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No, JORR #2, I never said that.

They rooftops DO NOT HELP the Cubs' chances. So Who. The. Fuck. Cares? how Ricketts deals with them.

I don't care about the goddamn rooftops, ivy, manual scoreboard. Build me Miller Park. I like Miller Park. Who the fuck cares? Win me some goddamn World Series. I'm a fan of the team, and baseball games. Everything else is noise.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

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I never said that, followed by confirming you did say it is an interesting choice.
I really enjoy reading things like this. Thanks.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

In fairness, Rick was here first.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Wow the B&B Facebook Group page must be a real creep show.
I assume it Quad City Fat and a band of groupies. So I guess I understand the Bernstein / Cubs thing from that aspect.
I'll have to ask my Mom or Niece how to get in Facebook.

Rooftops:
I'm a fan of the experience in general but not as much as before.
I lived in a building just as they were turning into the cash cow so saw a bit of then and now.
We had a blast on the rooftops but it was much more about the party than the game.
The ability to be at a bar / party with your apartment a few floors below makes me surprised I'm still alive.
Running downstairs to smoke pot and / or show a lady friend your place in the building (fish in a barrel with a bazooka)....cool story bro...

The Cubs signed a contract BUT there IS wording in there that obviously was to protect them if and when the expanded.
Look at the footprint, how is that not an expansion plus there will be more seats.
That concept right there is enough to make me side with the Cubs.

On top of that I know as fun / special as Wrigley has always been the place was a dump and needed changes.
These "small business owners" reminded me of the dopes that are at the bottom of a know pyramid scheme and get mad because they got in late.

As was mention before - These places will still makes tons of money even with obstructed views.
Many of the rooftops already can't see 25% or more of the field.
It's all about the game day experience and party for many of the tourists / 20 somethings.

I have no sympathy for them and believe they can still make $ because of the Cubs.

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Kenny Williams fell for the banana in the tailpipe

Hurting and helping have a middle ground, called 'no affect whatsoever.'

The rooftops have no affect. So why care?

You're better at trolling.

Not sure if that is good or bad, but it is true.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.