I honestly can't recall, but I was actually referring to the most recent storm. They asked all the public safety officials if they were going to close Lake Shore, and it's pretty much a no win for government officials. If they do so and the storm doesn't come, then they should have known better. If they close it and people get trapped, why didn't you take that precaution? And if nothing goes wrong, then everyone forgets the "smart" decision making of the politicians.

The broader point is that stuff happens in life. And we all want this protective bubble provided by the government, and it is won't ever happen. Enjoy that false sense of security.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

You seemingly trust the government more than many people here. I dont want to get into a big thing on that and you might be right in many cases, but you give government the benefit of the doubt. Many of us do not. I think if you think of it like that, you'll be good.

Think of an entity you dont trust. Now, what if I passed a law saying they could inject you with whatever they wanted whenever they wanted?

As much as I think almost everyone should be vaccinated, I'm not sure I can support the government sticking needles in people against their will. It sounds like something from the Third Reich.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

This guy gets it

No need to make it more complicated than it is.

Do you think the government should be involved in enforcing public health with something that has evidence and testing that is so strong it has lasted for decades as being easily the right thing to do. It isn't about slippery slopes or anything. It is whether the government has any role at all. For instance, do you feel that the government was right to ban lead paint and gasoline and asbestos?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Some of us see the government as employees. Others see the government as the bosses.


I see them as Goggles, but that's neither here nor there

I'm a big fan of Hub. Cant stand Bowen & Durkin is weak sauce. I cant remember what Miller sounds like.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

It's a slippery slope...that's what I worry about. Protect the children!

The Economist did a nice feature on the whole issue. I guess a population is well protected if about 90% of the people are vaccinated through a concept called herd immunity. The problem cropping up in the U.S. is that in certain areas there is well below 90% vaccination rates. I worry less about the measles because vaccinated folks are largely protected meaning this crap will hit the dummies not getting their shots. I recognize the elderly and infants may not have that protection, so there is your externality.

As an aside, I have a neighbor with an autistic child. She will not let her kids get shots because of that theory that it causes autism. We've tried to convince her otherwise, but to no avail. The doctor who came up with that theory has been wholly discredited.

I just expect people to make their own informed life choices. We always shift blame somewhere else. "I didn't know I couldn't afford a $400,000 mortgage on a $30,000 job."

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Hawaii (fuck) You

This is the "libertarianism" born of relative luxury and privilege. Don't you ever step outside yourself and think about the people whose circumstances do require more guidance? or the people who are perfectly aware that subsisting on cheap crap is going to make them sick or kill them but have no other feasible alternatives? And I can't even bear to get too deep into the dripping haughtiness of "I make decisions that best suit my life," as if other people are willfully self-destructing because it's fun. But fuck them, right? I bet they don't even read The Economist!

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The government has the right to ban harmful products. I would not allow folks to own plutonium. The government does not have the right to force me to do something.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

The hyperbole in here is amazing.

It's medicine that has saved millions of lives and now we are considering people Nazi's for subjecting people to the horrible fate of 10 seconds of pain and some soreness afterwards!

If this is really where you guys all draw the line in the sand then I just honestly don't understand what you think the role of government should be. The science is clear and overwhelming and it was a massive health emergency for decades before this basically stopped it in its tracks.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

None of us have an issue with the medicine.

Its the mandatory nature of it.

What makes you so sure the government wont ever use this (mandatory injections) for nefarious reasons?

We have created a culture that is dependent on the government. Your post is an indication of that. We barely treat adults like adults. Folks sign loan documents they don't read. You give them 30 disclosures telling them the cost of credit, and then they say they didn't know what they were signing. I can't save people from themselves and neither can the government.

I am well aware of the folks outside my bubble both from my upcoming in a single mother household and from many downtrodden relatives.

On the issue of vaccines, that is why we hire doctors to treat us. I trust their advice.

On real estate transactions, that is why we hire lawyers.

On anything I am not well informed, I hire an expert to help me from fixing my car to installing hardwood floors.

Everyone wants to blame everyone else. Look in the mirror.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Someone call the IRS! We've got one of them!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Paying taxes is not equal to mandatory injections.

Neither is overseeing the health industry or requiring children to go to school.


There is no apt comparison for it, because this kind of thing has never happened.

The government forces denis to pay taxes. He says they don't have the right to make him do anything. Well, I would guess he isn't choosing to do so.
Nothing is ever exactly like anything. There are plenty of public health issues that would be even more apt, but you'll just say they aren't the same thing.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Bring them on! Turbo Tax is a lifesaver.


I don't make apologies for my free market, Libertarian beliefs. I loved Atlas Shrugged. It is one of the best books I ever read and has so many parallels to today's world. I also welcome other points of view and would encourage well informed counter arguments. Chus was doing solid work in another thread. I have the utmost respect for CH's opinions.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

It isn't as if you are going to go to a government hell hole like the DMV to get your vaccination shot. It would still be given by a nurse or Doctor in a medical office. I hate big government as much as the next guy, but there is only one correct side to this issue.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

There is a thing called the 16th Amendment. Prior to that the income tax was ruled illegal by the Supreme Court. If Congress passed another Amendment requiring vaccines, then I would be ok with that rule.

The government absolutely has the right to tax. Otherwise, there would be no government at all. I am not an anarchist. I am a firm believer in the Constitution, the rule of law, free markets, democracy, self-determination, etc.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

This guy gets it.

The government is following the direction of the medical community here. It's not like Obama woke up and said "You know what, lets stick needles in everyone!".

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So the government does have the right to tell you to do something.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No there are not apt comparisons. You obviously think things like paying taxes and strongly suggesting kids go to school is a good comparison. Its not. Nothing is.


If this were just more of what we already do, there wouldnt be such an uproar about it.

What makes you so sure the government wont ever use this (mandatory injections) for nefarious reasons?

You're missing the point. A government that does things to your body is intrusive regardless of the perceived good that may result from it. By definition, anything a government does is for "good" even when it's clrealy reprehensible.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

This guy is an idiot. Why shoudn't the government implant tracking chips in everyone too? No more kidnappings!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

rpb will soon be here to tell you that this is not an apt comparison!

I hope many of you are just arguing just to argue because this is a bad stance to take, and all the mentions of government conspiracies and the third reich seem to show that.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Vaccines are good. All should be taken upon your doctor's advice. I see no need for any government involvement. That is my entire opinion.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Im really glad I know you.


Yes, Rick that WOULD be an apt comparison. But your attempt at a shot doesnt work because we've never had chips implanted (although Im sure you'll be first in line when it happens) and thus my statement that nothing we have done compares to this is correct.

Dont you understand that kidnapping is a bad thing? Cant we all agree to that? Yes? Ok, so then we must do ANYTHING that stops kidnapping.

The medical community needs the backing of the government for some things though. That is what seems to be missing here. The medical community is saying "Everyone who is medically able should be vaccinated" and the government says "Ok, we will do that".

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!