And red light cameras on every street are to protect children and reduce accidents. Meanwhile, the government rigs the devices to increase revenues, and the federal government is building a database of travel habits of everyone to slow the drug trade.

Tell me again why I don't trust these guys?

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Chip implants are not an apt comparison because they aren't even a public health issue. I'm not any more protected from disease because you have a chip implant. I'm more protected from disease if you are vaccinated.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I am ok if they set standards. The FDA does that with food labeling.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Then what are you arguing? Is it that Barack Obama shouldn't be the one deciding if vaccines should be mandatory?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

he's the Dan Bernstein of libertarians.....back back BACK!

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

He doesn't want you and Scorhead holding him down while Hillary Clinton sticks a needle in his ass.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Nah, I am not an Obama hater. He doesn't move the needle for me. I am more concerned about looney Republicans like Ted Cruz that stand for nothing. Obama is pretty harmless as he does so little that the economy hums along. Plus I love his fairly non-interventionist foreign policy. I come from the Ron Paul school of Republicans minus his abortion stance.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

LOL, given the rise in pegging that may hold some appeal to me. Let me think about it and get back to yall.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Kidnapping is not a public health issue? I disagree.

And what if I told you vaccinations are coming in chip form? Still good?

You think Denis opinion would have been different in the Bush years?

I'm with you bro, there are some real kooks out there. The word "government" is thrown around so lazily among the kook population. The federal "government" does not mandate immunizations; it simply issues guidelines. All state "governments" mandate immunizations unless you can prove to some "government" kook that you're a kook. These laws have been around since there were immunizations and some states do not even have kook exemptions. It would appear that the "libertarians" among us feel that it is a pressing need to roll back those mandates. Great idea! Like the Starbuck's guy, we should let the market sort it out by making the unvaccinated children wear t-shirts that say "Warning: I am an unvaccinated public health hazard because my father fears the 'government'"

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Soccer 1,2,3
Spanish Honor Society 1,2,3,4
Forensics 1,2,3,4

"Smiles with Nostrils"

"...no Hmong, go find some blacks"

The stories of Roald Dahl -- "James and the Giant Peach," "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory," "Matilda" and many more -- are known and loved by children (and grown-ups) around the world.

But while his imaginary tales delighted millions, there was a tragic, real-life story Dahl also wanted to tell -- one that still has great significance today.

In 1962, his 7-year-old daughter Olivia died of measles. The vaccine that could have prevented it didn't come out until 1963.

In those days, measles killed 400 to 500 people in the U.S. each year, and left thousands of children with serious complications including deafness and mental retardation.

An effective vaccination campaign virtually eliminated measles in this country by 2000. Yet as the severity of the disease became a more distant memory, an increasing number of parents began opting out of having their children vaccinated.

The current measles outbreak, which started spreading at Disneyland in mid-December, has now sickened more than 100 people in 14 states, most of whom had not been vaccinated. The disease is highly contagious and easily spreads through a cough or sneeze, infecting about 90 percent of people who are exposed if they haven't gotten the vaccine.

Nationwide, the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccination rate tops 90 percent, but in some communities a majority of families have opted out, leaving children vulnerable to the outbreak.

The growing anti-vaccine trend alarmed Dahl. So in 1988, two years before his death, he penned a public letter recounting his story and urging parents to take advantage of the vaccine that came too late to help Olivia. A portion is published on his website:

Olivia, my eldest daughter, caught measles when she was seven years old. As the illness took its usual course I can remember reading to her often in bed and not feeling particularly alarmed about it. Then one morning, when she was well on the road to recovery, I was sitting on her bed showing her how to fashion little animals out of coloured pipe-cleaners, and when it came to her turn to make one herself, I noticed that her fingers and her mind were not working together and she couldn't do anything.

"Are you feeling all right?" I asked her.

"I feel all sleepy," she said.

In an hour, she was unconscious. In twelve hours she was dead.

The measles had turned into a terrible thing called measles encephalitis and there was nothing the doctors could do to save her. That was twenty-four years ago in 1962, but even now, if a child with measles happens to develop the same deadly reaction from measles as Olivia did, there would still be nothing the doctors could do to help her.

On the other hand, there is today something that parents can do to make sure that this sort of tragedy does not happen to a child of theirs. They can insist that their child is immunised against measles. I was unable to do that for Olivia in 1962 because in those days a reliable measles vaccine had not been discovered. Today a good and safe vaccine is available to every family and all you have to do is to ask your doctor to administer it.

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

If what you say is true then Ill say I was wrong but from what I know its not.

All Im seeing is the state does is make it mandatory for SCHOOL ENTRY which most of us have said is fine.

There are laws about healthcare workers and entering schools.

I havent seen anything about mandating it for everyone. (understanding most us go to school)

Also, I dont think anyone in this thread is aruging against vaccines or their use.

There is another thread for that if you want. (Not that I care where you post, just sayin)

And there you (DannyB) hit on another key concept, the 10th Amendment. Lonely and oft forgotten.

C is for kookie, that's good enough for me

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Hawaii (fuck) You

It literally is not.
Strange hypothetical but I'd wonder what the good medical reason was for it and how strongly it was tested. I'd stick with vaccine even with the risk that the government could be using it for "nefarious means".

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This kind of hyperbole just dumbs down the conversation.

RPB - you keep referencing a lack of trust in "government", but in this context you are really saying you don't trust scientists and Doctors. If the government tried to enforce some sort of nefarious mandatory injection, do you suppose the medical community would remain silent? Or the press? That's the beauty of living in a free society. They make these types of conspiracy theories & the like essentially untenable.

Last question - who do you trust on public health issues such as vaccinations? Your own research (ie the internet)? A friend or 3rd hand anecdotal story?

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

Should the government make seeing a doctor on a regular basis mandatory? Otherwise this line of thinking has a few holes.

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

Well, there is our answer.

That's not what he's saying at all.

Once the government starts injecting people, who knows what might happen. It's funny to blindly trust the same government that supported human bondage and the idea that women have smaller brains.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

So it was crazy for me to compare required schooling for children to required vaccinations for children but it is perfectly sane to speculate that the government will use vaccines as a path towards some sort of grand plan to control the population?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

My opinions are abundantly clear. It is up to the individual to seek proper medical care and follow that advice.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I don't know what government might do. There are governments that conduct genocides against their people. But I guess that could never happen "here".

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

No, it doesnt. It's a perfectly valid question. Im sorry that you dont like it. And it's not hyperbole. Pretty condescending thought by you there.


You are way more confident in those checks and balances than I am. I'm not so sure about people standing up against the government in a hypothetical situation like that. Who knows the scope of such a process, it could be as simple as bringing some medical people in on it.

And why do you assume that the doctors would have to know about it? You're making a lot of assumptions here. There could easily be a scenario where doctors were unknowingly used.

I mean, it sounds like you are of the belief that America is government conspiracy proof. Is that what you're saying?







I trust doctors. You're confusing the issue and acting like I'm against vaccines. Im 100% for them.

He knows that, he's not dumb


Some are having a hard time separating the Vaccines are good argument from the Vaccines should be mandated argument, though

They can do all those things with or without vaccines.

At least vaccines are based on publicly available and peer reviewed science. The government "could" send the army to kill everyone at the Super Bowl too.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

We are talking about now...not about an era where those types of thoughts were allowed to exist. (oddly this anti-vaccination theory kind of fits in with that...but I digress). As I noted earlier - the prevalence of a free press and a vocal & trustworthy medical community in conjunction with infinite means of disseminating information prevents this type of widespread conspiracy.

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

Wow!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

You are saying vaccines may be a way for the government to inject populations with nefarious reasons!

Pardon us for not understanding that actually means vaccines are good.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!