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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:12 am 
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Is there a more overrated attribute than what is termed minor league "depth"? The only guys who matter are the ones who will be helping out the MLB roster

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:06 pm 
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Keith Law Top 100:
Quote:
1. Kris Bryant 3B Chicago Cubs
2. Byron Buxton CF Minnesota Twins
3. Carlos Correa SS Houston Astros
4. Addison Russell SS Chicago Cubs
5. Corey Seager SS/3B Los Angeles Dodgers
6. Francisco Lindor SS Cleveland Indians
7. J.P. Crawford SS Philadelphia Phillies
8. Lucas Giolito RHP Washington Nationals
9. Julio Urias LHP Los Angeles Dodgers
10. Blake Swihart C Boston Red Sox
11. Joey Gallo 3B Texas Rangers
12. Carlos Rodon LHP Chicago White Sox
13. Tyler Glasnow RHP Pittsburgh Pirates
14. Jorge Soler RF Chicago Cubs
15. Miguel Sano 3B Minnesota Twins
16. Hunter Harvey RHP Baltimore Orioles
17. Noah Syndergaard RHP New York Mets
18. Daniel Norris LHP Toronto Blue Jays
19. Braden Shipley RHP Arizona Diamondbacks
20. Henry Owens LHP Boston Red Sox
21. Archie Bradley RHP Arizona Diamondbacks
22. Jon Gray RHP Colorado Rockies
23. Aaron Judge OF New York Yankees
24. Jose Peraza SS/2B Atlanta Braves
25. Kyle Zimmer RHP Kansas City Royals
26. Dylan Bundy RHP Baltimore Orioles
27. David Dahl OF Colorado Rockies
28. Joc Pederson OF Los Angeles Dodgers
29. Eduardo Rodriguez LHP Boston Red Sox
30. Alex Meyer RHP Minnesota Twins
31. Nomar Mazara OF Texas Rangers
32. Austin Meadows OF Pittsburgh Pirates
33. Eddie Butler RHP Colorado Rockies
34. Tyler Kolek RHP Miami Marlins
35. Jorge Alfaro C Texas Rangers
36. Jameson Taillon RHP Pittsburgh Pirates
37. Aaron Blair RHP Arizona Diamondbacks
38. Raul Mondesi Jr. SS Kansas City Royals
39. Hunter Renfroe OF San Diego Padres
40. Jesse Winker LF Cincinnati Reds
41. Michael Conforto LF New York Mets
42. Dalton Pompey CF Toronto Blue Jays
43. Nick Gordon SS Minnesota Twins
44. Mark Appel RHP Houston Astros
45. Kevin Plawecki C New York Mets
46. Andrew Susac C San Francisco Giants
47. Mike Foltynewicz RHP Atlanta Braves
48. Sean Newcomb LHP Los Angeles Angels
49. Robert Stephenson RHP Cincinnati Reds
50. Ryan McMahon 3B Colorado Rockies
51. Aaron Sanchez RHP Toronto Blue Jays
52. Jake Thompson RHP Texas Rangers
53. Kohl Stewart RHP Minnesota Twins
54. Orlando Arcia SS Milwaukee Brewers
55. Rafael Devers 3B Boston Red Sox
56. Vincent Velasquez RHP Houston Astros
57. Aaron Nola RHP Philadelphia Phillies
58. Andrew Heaney LHP Los Angeles Angels
59. Alex Jackson RF Seattle Mariners
60. Josh Bell OF Pittsburgh Pirates
61. D. J. Peterson 1B Seattle Mariners
62. Stephen Piscotty OF St. Louis Cardinals
63. Joe Ross RHP Washington Nationals
64. Marco Gonzales LHP St. Louis Cardinals
65. Dominic Smith 1B New York Mets
66. Ozhaino Albies SS Atlanta Braves
67. Tim Anderson SS Chicago White Sox
68. Raimel Tapia OF Colorado Rockies
69. Amed Rosario SS New York Mets
70. Manuel Margot CF Boston Red Sox
71. Michael Taylor CF Washington Nationals
72. J.T. Realmuto C Miami Marlins
73. Colin Moran 3B Houston Astros
74. Austin Hedges C San Diego Padres
75. Reynaldo Lopez RHP Washington Nationals
76. Brett Phillips OF Houston Astros
77. Alex Reyes RHP St. Louis Cardinals
78. Justin O'Conner C Tampa Bay Rays
79. Grant Holmes RHP Los Angeles Dodgers
80. Greg Bird 1B New York Yankees
81. Matt Olson 1B Oakland Athletics
82. Tyrell Jenkins RHP Atlanta Braves
83. Daniel Robertson SS Tampa Bay Rays
84. Brad Zimmer CF Cleveland Indians
85. Derek Hill CF Detroit Tigers
86. Alex "Chi Chi" Gonzalez RHP Texas Rangers
87. Rob Kaminsky LHP St. Louis Cardinals
88. Trea Turner SS Washington Nationals
89. Alen Hanson 2B/SS Pittsburgh Pirates
90. Kyle Schwarber C Chicago Cubs
91.Brandon Nimmo OF New York Mets
92. Clint Frazier OF Cleveland Indians
93. Rio Ruiz 3B Atlanta Braves
94. Spencer Adams RHP Chicago White Sox
95. Franklin Barreto SS Oakland Athletics
96. Luis Ortiz RHP Texas Rangers
97. Jose Berrios RHP Minnesota Twins
98. A.J. Cole RHP Washington Nationals
99. Kyle Freeland LHP Colorado Rockies
100. Max Fried LHP Atlanta Braves


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:12 pm 
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I thought Gallo, Sano, Soler, and Schwarber would all be higher.

I thought Lindor and Seager would be lower.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:22 pm 
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They obviously aren't projecting Schwarber to catch.

I think he is the most likely minor leaguer to be moved and is being featured at catcher to maximize value.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:22 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Is there a more overrated attribute than what is termed minor league "depth"?

Yes. Bat speed.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:15 pm 
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Former Cubs top prospect Josh Vitters signed with the Rockies on a minor league deal.

End of an era.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:48 am 
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Quote:
Baseball Prospectus Top 101:
2. Addison Russell, SS, Chicago Cubs
5. Kris Bryant, 3B, Chicago Cubs
19. Jorge Soler, OF, Chicago Cubs
38. Albert Almora, OF, Chicago Cubs
77. Kyle Schwarber, C/OF, Chicago Cubs
81. Billy McKinney, OF, Chicago Cubs
83. Pierce Johnson, RHP, Chicago Cubs

They can't all eventually suck can they? Right?! Right?! :|


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:50 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Quote:
Baseball Prospectus Top 101:
2. Addison Russell, SS, Chicago Cubs
5. Kris Bryant, 3B, Chicago Cubs
19. Jorge Soler, OF, Chicago Cubs
38. Albert Almora, OF, Chicago Cubs
77. Kyle Schwarber, C/OF, Chicago Cubs
81. Billy McKinney, OF, Chicago Cubs
83. Pierce Johnson, RHP, Chicago Cubs

They can't all eventually suck can they? Right?! Right?! :|
You wouldn't think so, and you would have to figure it could be a pretty solid foundation, but only 1 pitcher...

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:53 am 
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C. J. Edwards is not on there...somehow? Not really sure why... Should be two pitchers.

Still, you'd like more, but next off-season will have a lot to choose from, and the Cubs should easily be able to grab a #2 or #3 with no problem.

But there is a dearth of offense in baseball, and the Cubs should have a decent advantage there if a few of these guys pan out.

I don't know if there are any pennants in the near future, but I can guarantee a decent level of competitiveness.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:54 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
C. J. Edwards is not on there...somehow? Not really sure why... Should be two pitchers.

Still, you'd like more, but next off-season will have a lot to choose from, and the Cubs should easily be able to grab a #2 or #3 with no problem.

But there is a dearth of offense in baseball, and the Cubs should have a decent advantage there if a few of these guys pan out.

I don't know if there are any pennants in the near future, but I can guarantee a decent level of competitiveness.

SomeGuy has snorted rails thicker than Edwards. Doubt he can sustain a career as a starter.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:58 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
C. J. Edwards is not on there...somehow? Not really sure why... Should be two pitchers.

Still, you'd like more, but next off-season will have a lot to choose from, and the Cubs should easily be able to grab a #2 or #3 with no problem.

But there is a dearth of offense in baseball, and the Cubs should have a decent advantage there if a few of these guys pan out.

I don't know if there are any pennants in the near future, but I can guarantee a decent level of competitiveness.

SomeGuy has snorted rails thicker than Edwards. Doubt he can sustain a career as a starter.



Image

Buff Bagwell there.

I know CJ is somehow thinner, but all pitchers with injuries are unique. Per talent, he should be on this list especially if Johnson made it.

Edit: Also, I know it's very unlikely CJ will ever be 1/2 the quality of Chris Sale. Just comparing body types.

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Last edited by Northside_Dan on Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:03 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:08 pm 
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Those dudes are exceptions. Whatever. I don't think any pitcher should be below 30. They're all a pitch away from scheduling an appointment with Dr. Andrews.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:09 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
C. J. Edwards is not on there...somehow? Not really sure why... Should be two pitchers.

Still, you'd like more, but next off-season will have a lot to choose from, and the Cubs should easily be able to grab a #2 or #3 with no problem.

But there is a dearth of offense in baseball, and the Cubs should have a decent advantage there if a few of these guys pan out.

I don't know if there are any pennants in the near future, but I can guarantee a decent level of competitiveness.

SomeGuy has snorted rails thicker than Edwards. Doubt he can sustain a career as a starter.

Agreed, bullpen guy

But not being on the list is probably a product of being injured last year


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:11 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Quote:
Baseball Prospectus Top 101:
2. Addison Russell, SS, Chicago Cubs
5. Kris Bryant, 3B, Chicago Cubs
19. Jorge Soler, OF, Chicago Cubs
38. Albert Almora, OF, Chicago Cubs
77. Kyle Schwarber, C/OF, Chicago Cubs
81. Billy McKinney, OF, Chicago Cubs
83. Pierce Johnson, RHP, Chicago Cubs

They can't all eventually suck can they? Right?! Right?! :|


Yes they can

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:12 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Quote:
Baseball Prospectus Top 101:
2. Addison Russell, SS, Chicago Cubs
5. Kris Bryant, 3B, Chicago Cubs
19. Jorge Soler, OF, Chicago Cubs
38. Albert Almora, OF, Chicago Cubs
77. Kyle Schwarber, C/OF, Chicago Cubs
81. Billy McKinney, OF, Chicago Cubs
83. Pierce Johnson, RHP, Chicago Cubs

They can't all eventually suck can they? Right?! Right?! :|


Yes they can

They wont though and you know it


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:14 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Quote:
Baseball Prospectus Top 101:
2. Addison Russell, SS, Chicago Cubs
5. Kris Bryant, 3B, Chicago Cubs
19. Jorge Soler, OF, Chicago Cubs
38. Albert Almora, OF, Chicago Cubs
77. Kyle Schwarber, C/OF, Chicago Cubs
81. Billy McKinney, OF, Chicago Cubs
83. Pierce Johnson, RHP, Chicago Cubs

They can't all eventually suck can they? Right?! Right?! :|


Yes they can

They wont though and you know it



I would bet a bunch that no more than three of them spend more than five seasons in a Cub uniform.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:16 pm 
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Bullpen guys can still be Top 100 prospects, though I think he should be tried as a starter first. Maybe could be similar to Rich Harden. 6 stellar innings but never any more. And hopefully not get injured.

It is possible he would be on the mid-season lists. He is already on many other prospect lists.

I cannot trust a list that has Bryant #5 anyway.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:27 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

I would bet a bunch that no more than three of them spend more than five seasons in a Cub uniform.

That is miles from "they all suck"


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:30 pm 
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Buxton is going to be a beast


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:31 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:

Yes they can

They wont though and you know it



I would bet a bunch that no more than three of them spend more than five seasons in a Cub uniform
:scratch:
you say that like that is unexpected or a problem.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:37 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:

Yes they can

They wont though and you know it



I would bet a bunch that no more than three of them spend more than five seasons in a Cub uniform
:scratch:
you say that like that is unexpected or a problem.


I don't think it's a problem for you, but the vast majority of Cub fan who are jizzing in their pants seem to have this fantasy about a team that is 90% homegrown via the genius of Theo. That's the defense for losing on purpose for several years. If all you achieved by putting a horrible product on the field for three years is getting a couple starters (maybe), I'd say it's a bad Plan.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:49 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't think it's a problem for you, but the vast majority of Cub fan who are jizzing in their pants seem to have this fantasy about a team that is 90% homegrown via the genius of Theo. That's the defense for losing on purpose for several years. If all you achieved by putting a horrible product on the field for three years is getting a couple starters (maybe), I'd say it's a bad Plan.

How many developed starters are required for a horrible product on the field for three years?

Is this going to be the White Sox fans' stance for the next five years?

We're past the horrible product on the field. If it doesn't bother Cubs fans in 2015, why should it bother Sox fans?

The investment has been made; nothing can be changed about that. Now, whether you were a fan of the plan or not, you can hope to reap the planned rewards.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:54 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I'd say it's a bad Plan.

If they win, it worked. If they dont, it didnt.


Plus, you might trade guys. That's not a negative. If one of the prospects is traded for a good starter, that would still be a win for the plan.

Anyway, the hard part is over.

I dont care what happened in the previous three years at this point. I went thru it. It sucked. Its over now.


And its not close to the vast majority who think everyone will be good.

No matter how much you want denistheman to represent most of Cub fans while you ignore the other 20 fans on here who are generally pessimistic, it's just not true.


We dont need to have the argument. You think one thing. I think the other. Were both sure the other guy is wrong. I just needed to get my shot in, since you took yours.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:32 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
If all you achieved by putting a horrible product on the field for three years is getting a couple starters (maybe).


OK so Bryant and Russell become the couple of starters...looks like one heckuva bench...Soler, Almora, McKinney, Schwaber and Johnson in the pen....

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:38 pm 
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THE INQUISITOR wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
If all you achieved by putting a horrible product on the field for three years is getting a couple starters (maybe).


OK so Bryant and Russell become the couple of starters...looks like one heckuva bench...Soler, Almora, McKinney, Schwaber and Johnson in the pen....


"One heckuva bench?" Are you trying to show Bryan how wrong he is about most Cub fans being reasonable?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:42 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
THE INQUISITOR wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
If all you achieved by putting a horrible product on the field for three years is getting a couple starters (maybe).


OK so Bryant and Russell become the couple of starters...looks like one heckuva bench...Soler, Almora, McKinney, Schwaber and Johnson in the pen....


"One heckuva bench?" Are you trying to show Bryan how wrong he is about most Cub fans being reasonable?

I think he's saying that at least a few of the second 5 he named will be starters. Its not crazy to project top prospects to be "starters"


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:13 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
THE INQUISITOR wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
If all you achieved by putting a horrible product on the field for three years is getting a couple starters (maybe).


OK so Bryant and Russell become the couple of starters...looks like one heckuva bench...Soler, Almora, McKinney, Schwaber and Johnson in the pen....


"One heckuva bench?" Are you trying to show Bryan how wrong he is about most Cub fans being reasonable?


Not saying that at all.....YOU said "a couple starters (maybe)...so if a couple is two... like most reasonable people think then the other 5 are either complete busts and out of baseball or they are on the bench beaten out by better players..... so it seems like the unreasonable one may be you.... unless I misinterpret what you meant by 'a couple"

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:24 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I'd say it's a bad Plan.

If they win, it worked. If they dont, it didnt..


That seems to be the prevailing analysis. I think it is an unsophisticated view.

Look at those guys in the Top 101. Only 2 out of 7 were acquired due to tanking. The top in the group was not acquired by losing.

Losing clearly wasn't NECESSARY to ultimately win. Losing was necessary to save money. Theo was necessary to make the losing look like a legitimate strategy. That is the big con that Joe Orr frequently references.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:43 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I'd say it's a bad Plan.

If they win, it worked. If they dont, it didnt..


That seems to be the prevailing analysis. I think it is an unsophisticated view.

Look at those guys in the Top 101. Only 2 out of 7 were acquired due to tanking. The top in the group was not acquired by losing.

Losing clearly wasn't NECESSARY to ultimately win. Losing was necessary to save money. Theo was necessary to make the losing look like a legitimate strategy. That is the big con that Joe Orr frequently references.

A lot of unnecessary things are done by a lot of organizations that end up successful. I subscribe to the Machiavellian theory on the Cubs winning. I dont see how a Cub fan could be any other way.


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