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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:10 pm 
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I understand the need to cut here and there but this one in particular is ridiculous. Like Kirkwood said , it's not his money to even fuck with. He has to change the law to grab it. As someone who grew up as a beneficiary of this program which helped keep the heat on in the winter for us its really fucking galling.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:16 pm 
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Yea...I'm not a fan of this proposal at all.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:21 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
It's called living within your means, and it sure feels good.

It doesnt feel good to think about the effects of cutting mental healthcare


So would a huge tax hike make you happy if it paid the state's billls? That would be living within our means


Talk about something that needs an increase in funding all across America.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:22 am 
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Rauner bartered a $100k bottle of wine to Scott Walker for the idea.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2 ... shortfall/

Gov. Scott Walker Pockets Money Intended For Wisconsin Foreclosure Victims To Make Up State Budget Shortfall

After successfully stripping Wisconsin state public employees of their collective bargaining rights, working to deny low income residents the right to vote, and attempting to fend off the damaging effects of the burgeoning illegal electioneering scandal that is enveloping his administration and threatens to suck the Governor himself into the vortex, Scott Walker has found a new project worthy of his time and intents.

Walker is directing the State of Wisconsin to keep a large chunk of the money from this week’s national settlement with five of the nation’s largest mortgage lenders —money intended to help compensate those who were victims of the illegal mortgage practices that caused so many to lose their homes and to aid in the rebuilding of stricken neighborhoods—so that the state’s budget gap can be closed and Gov. Walker can head into his recall election able to claim that he has balanced the state budget.

Where does he find the time?

It can’t be easy for Walker to devise so many ways to take advantage of his constituents in furtherance of his own agenda and the agenda of his right-wing benefactors (you know who you are.)

Wisconsin is set to receive a total of $140 million of the $25 billion settlement.

Per the structure of the payment plan set up in the mortgage settlement, each state government is to receive a direct portion of the money for the purpose of funding future law enforcement efforts, providing additional relief to borrowers, paying civil penalties, funding of foreclosure relief programs and to compensate the state for its losses from the crisis.

As I review the list of intended uses, I simply don’t see paying down state budget shortfalls as meeting the purposes and intents of the agreement.

Of the $31.6 million coming directly to the state government, Governor Walker plans to keep $25.6 million of the cash to close his state’s deficit with the remainder being placed in an account for further disbursal.

Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, whose city experienced the highest level of foreclosures in the state and believes the $31.6 million in question should be made available to affected Wisconsin cities for programs designed to aid those who were the victims of mortgage fraud, is not amused -

Hundreds and possibly thousands have lost their homes because of this bait-and-switch” by lenders who pushed subprime mortgages during the housing bubble. The worst thing that can happen now is for the state of Wisconsin to employ its own bait-and-switch.

Even the Wisconsin Bankers Association, which counts among its members banks that were a part of the settlement deal, believes the portion of the funds going directly to the state should be used to mitigate the damage done to people by illicit foreclosure practices and to aid in neighborhood stabilization efforts.

And here is the best part –Governor Walker has a history of vigorously and audibly opposing the use of ‘one-time’ money from legal settlements (think tobacco settlement) to pay off state budget deficits.

So, how does Walker justify his actions when they directly contradict his previous position?

According to the Governor, this case is different because the foreclosure crisis had a “direct impact on the economy.”

Apparently, the impact of lung cancer, heart disease, and the many other tobacco related illnesses which formed the basis of the legal actions leading to the settlements between the states and the tobacco companies, have no such direct impact on a state’s economy. Never mind that states like Wisconsin spend millions or billions on Medicaid programs to treat those stricken with tobacco related illness, causing a very real and measurable drain on a state’s economy.

I’ll say this for Scott Walker – he never ceases to amaze.

The man manages to make Snidely Whiplash look like Mother Theresa.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:28 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:08 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:21 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
It's called living within your means, and it sure feels good.

It doesnt feel good to think about the effects of cutting mental healthcare


So would a huge tax hike make you happy if it paid the state's billls? That would be living within our means


I would pay whatever it takes in taxes to balance both the state and federal budget. If that meant 60% of my income and hopefully yours, it would be great. Because at that point, all Americans would realize that the roads, social programs, retirement funds (social security and pensions) are not free. They would realize the actual costs of all these promised benefits. Instead, we have pretended that we can have these benefits without costs, that includes about $75 trillion in unfunded social security/medicare/medicaid promises at the federal level on top of 17 trillion in federal debt and all the state and local debt I have already outlined.

Right now, we are not asked to prioritize. And when someone comes along to match revenue and expenses, the resulting screams ala this thread are what happens. The DH has already run several stories from local governments begging not to be cut back.

I don't relish the cuts either despite my earlier trolling. But I do want revenues and expenses to be matched. I am willing to do whatever it takes to balance those things.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:19 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
It's called living within your means, and it sure feels good.

It doesnt feel good to think about the effects of cutting mental healthcare


So would a huge tax hike make you happy if it paid the state's billls? That would be living within our means


I would pay whatever it takes in taxes to balance both the state and federal budget. If that meant 60% of my income and hopefully yours, it would be great. Because at that point, all Americans would realize that the roads, social programs, retirement funds (social security and pensions) are not free. They would realize the actual costs of all these promised benefits. Instead, we have pretended that we can have these benefits without costs, that includes about $75 trillion in unfunded social security/medicare/medicaid promises at the federal level on top of 17 trillion in federal debt and all the state and local debt I have already outlined.

Right now, we are not asked to prioritize. And when someone comes along to match revenue and expenses, the resulting screams ala this thread are what happens. The DH has already run several stories from local governments begging not to be cut back.

I don't relish the cuts either despite my earlier trolling. But I do want revenues and expenses to be matched. I am willing to do whatever it takes to balance those things.

I dont think it's nearly as simple as you make it sound

And it kinda seems like you're blaming the people more than the politicians

Its not the people that need to learn. Its not the people that keep kicking the can down the road


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:26 pm 
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Revenues= X.
Spending needs to be X or less.

It's complex stuff.

I am blaming everyone.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:32 pm 
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Family I made a lot of bad decisions with our money. I gambled away most of it and now I need to take all the money from our kids college fund. We can't have cable either. It may not fix everything or anything at all but we're all at fault so everyone needs to sacrifice.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:33 pm 
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every country gets the government it deserves.

just thought that one up myself.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:40 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Family I made a lot of bad decisions with our money. I gambled away most of it and now I need to take all the money from our kids college fund. We can't have cable either. It may not fix everything or anything at all but we're all at fault so everyone needs to sacrifice.


Yeap, it sucks. Blame the baby boomers if it makes you feel better.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:43 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
I dont think it's nearly as simple as you make it sound

And it kinda seems like you're blaming the people more than the politicians

Its not the people that need to learn. Its not the people that keep kicking the can down the road



But aren't the people that rubber stamp elections for the kickers of said can and re-elect all of them a big problem?

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Last edited by pittmike on Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:44 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
I dont think it's nearly as simple as you make it sound

And it kinda seems like you're blaming the people more than the politicians

Its not the people that need to learn. Its not the people that keep kicking the can down the road



But isn't the people that rubber stamp elections for the kickers of said can and re-elect all of them?


Yes we "shook up Springfield", and you see people don't like the results. Kick that can some more!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:50 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Revenues= X.
Spending needs to be X or less.

It's complex stuff.

I am blaming everyone.

Thank you for the condescending explanation of the simple equation


You are not blaming everyone. According to your posts, you are focused on the people way more than the politicians.

And all cuts are not equal. You're acting like they are.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:51 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
I dont think it's nearly as simple as you make it sound

And it kinda seems like you're blaming the people more than the politicians

Its not the people that need to learn. Its not the people that keep kicking the can down the road



But isn't the people that rubber stamp elections for the kickers of said can and re-elect all of them?

Yes, the voters are responsible on some level, but that doesnt mean you dont judge the politicians


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:54 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
pittmike wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
I dont think it's nearly as simple as you make it sound

And it kinda seems like you're blaming the people more than the politicians

Its not the people that need to learn. Its not the people that keep kicking the can down the road



But isn't the people that rubber stamp elections for the kickers of said can and re-elect all of them?


Yes we "shook up Springfield", and you see people don't like the results. Kick that can some more!

Keep repeating that false premise, maybe it will become fact


Again, all cuts are not equal. Can you admit that? You seem happy because of where the cuts are happening, not that the cuts are happening.


Here is what you are essentially saying: If you dont like Rauner's proposal, you just dont want anything cut ever.


Do you see how crazy that is?


Its like being against cutting mental health care means youre against all cut backs.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:55 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Revenues= X.
Spending needs to be X or less.

It's complex stuff.

I am blaming everyone.

Thank you for the condescending explanation of the simple equation


You are not blaming everyone. According to your posts, you are focused on the people way more than the politicians.

And all cuts are not equal. You're acting like they are.



I just said I am blaming everyone in the prior post. Oh well, we all read what we want to I guess.

What's my PAR (posts above replacement)? Gotta be negative something or other.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:58 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Revenues= X.
Spending needs to be X or less.

It's complex stuff.

I am blaming everyone.

Thank you for the condescending explanation of the simple equation


You are not blaming everyone. According to your posts, you are focused on the people way more than the politicians.

And all cuts are not equal. You're acting like they are.



I just said I am blaming everyone in the prior post. Oh well, we all read what we want to I guess.

What's my PAR (posts above replacement)? Gotta be negative something or other.

I once posted that I was Kevin Costner. Im not Kevin Costner.

It seems like you believe the people are at fault. We all know the elected officials have the power. Yet you say things like "people will finally realize that these things arent free"

That seems to be focusing on the people


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:01 pm 
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Hahaha.

Quite simply (since I am making things too simple), here's how politics works.

Rauner (or insert any politician) proposes a tough love budget (or policy). Media, individuals and interest groups howl about the pain. Politician backs off. People blame politicians. People vote someone new in. Rinse repeat.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:13 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
It seems like you believe the people are at fault. We all know the elected officials have the power. Yet you say things like "people will finally realize that these things arent free"

That seems to be focusing on the people



In a sense the people are the problem though. Not focusing on the heat fee thing at all. Simply that you have everyone or at least a vast majority scream for change, fixes and the like. But as the government is so entangled in everyone's life there are too many things that are too precious to cut. Cut this and there is painful screaming and on down the line. So unless there is some collective decision or agreement to spread the pain around nothing will change. And people will blame politicians they re-elect because they get something they deem necessary for them. It is like the polls that show everyone hates congress but every loves "their" congressman.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:26 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Hahaha.

Quite simply (since I am making things too simple), here's how politics works.

Rauner (or insert any politician) proposes a tough love budget (or policy). Media, individuals and interest groups howl about the pain. Politician backs off. People blame politicians. People vote someone new in. Rinse repeat.

:lol:

Except you've bitched on this site about how ridiculous it is that politicians want high income people to pay more, so I guess in that way, you love kicking the can down the road

Cut poor people's heat, just dont raise my taxes


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:29 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
It seems like you believe the people are at fault. We all know the elected officials have the power. Yet you say things like "people will finally realize that these things arent free"

That seems to be focusing on the people



In a sense the people are the problem though. Not focusing on the heat fee thing at all. Simply that you have everyone or at least a vast majority scream for change, fixes and the like. But as the government is so entangled in everyone's life there are too many things that are too precious to cut. Cut this and there is painful screaming and on down the line. So unless there is some collective decision or agreement to spread the pain around nothing will change. And people will blame politicians they re-elect because they get something they deem necessary for them. It is like the polls that show everyone hates congress but every loves "their" congressman.

Agreed, but that STILL doesnt mean you dont fault the politicians. We have to have some expectation of competence


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:30 pm 
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Politician: Were raising taxes to pay our bills

Right winger: This is an outrage


Politician: Were cutting people's heat to pay our bills


Right winger: Bout time we started living within our means


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:40 pm 
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Yeah it's really weird that people who believe in small government prefer spending cuts over higher taxes. I always struggled with that one too. So many paradoxes in conservative circles. Luckily, my top priority is a balanced budget, which is why I posted earlier that I will pay whatever is necessary to get one. If everyone was forced to pay the true cost of government, I think a lot more people would be small government fans.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:46 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Yeah it's really weird that people who believe in small government prefer spending cuts over higher taxes. I always struggled with that one too. So many paradoxes in conservative circles. Luckily, my top priority is a balanced budget, which is why I posted earlier that I will pay whatever is necessary to get one. If everyone was forced to pay the true cost of government, I think a lot more people would be small government fans.

Denny do you think in this particular instance that a)Rauner has any right to do it b) Its a good place to cut?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:53 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Yeah it's really weird that people who believe in small government prefer spending cuts over higher taxes. I always struggled with that one too. So many paradoxes in conservative circles. Luckily, my top priority is a balanced budget, which is why I posted earlier that I will pay whatever is necessary to get one. If everyone was forced to pay the true cost of government, I think a lot more people would be small government fans.

That's fine but dont act like you are a pillar of responsibility who wants to balance the budget no matter what when in reality, you only want it balanced if its cuts, not taxes


People say they are against a cut and then you post that they want to kick the can down the road. That's bullshit. By the same token if you are against higher taxes, you must want to kick the can down the road, right?


No one in the GOP truly wants small government, btw


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:56 pm 
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RPB doing work.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:59 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Yeah it's really weird that people who believe in small government prefer spending cuts over higher taxes. I always struggled with that one too. So many paradoxes in conservative circles. Luckily, my top priority is a balanced budget, which is why I posted earlier that I will pay whatever is necessary to get one. If everyone was forced to pay the true cost of government, I think a lot more people would be small government fans.

Denny do you think in this particular instance that a)Rauner has any right to do it b) Its a good place to cut?


Fair question: I have spent a lot of time reading on the RebootIllinois site including that previously posted Civic Federation document. There are no easy answers because the problems have been built up over such a long period of time, and no one year fix is going to correct the mess. If the courts overthrow Quinn's pension reforms, then you are going to see Chicago file bankruptcy and the state needing a bailout down the road even though there is no Federal rules on that type of thing.

I hope Madigan and Rauner can meet in the middle, which means significant cuts and a revenue raise. I know I have been trolling a lot in this thread, but I am frustrated with the non-stop articles about the pain from the this budget. There's just no money, and it is evidenced by the $5.4B backlog of unpaid bills.

Obviously, the electricity fund shift is silly. But it is part of a broader issue of certain pots of money that the state has that cannot be used to pay for other items. Rauner is trying to get everything under the general fund budget. But the electricity thing is a poor move.


In my world:
-Remove the pension guarantee in the Constitution. You cannot take away already promised benefits, but you have to change the rules going forward. The courts won't even allow that.
-Fully fund the pension to the actuarial calculation. That has been the underlying problem.
-Post-retirement health benefits have to go. Almost no company offers those anymore.
-The state will have to reduce funding to cities and schools. Then taxes will have to rise in those places where they cannot offset the cuts.
-Raise revenues, and I think subjecting services to sales tax makes sense.
-I would reduce state employee headcount by not replacing retiring workers. My goal would be at least a 10% reduction.
-I would change Medicaid eligibility to reduce the number of folks falling under that program. It is one of the biggest cost drivers long term.


I'll have to think of more.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:01 pm 
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Chus wrote:
RPB doing work.


Yes, doing the work of forgetting things I have already said and answered like my willingness to pay whatever it takes to balance the budget.

denisdman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
It's called living within your means, and it sure feels good.

It doesnt feel good to think about the effects of cutting mental healthcare


So would a huge tax hike make you happy if it paid the state's billls? That would be living within our means


I would pay whatever it takes in taxes to balance both the state and federal budget. If that meant 60% of my income and hopefully yours, it would be great. Because at that point, all Americans would realize that the roads, social programs, retirement funds (social security and pensions) are not free. They would realize the actual costs of all these promised benefits. Instead, we have pretended that we can have these benefits without costs, that includes about $75 trillion in unfunded social security/medicare/medicaid promises at the federal level on top of 17 trillion in federal debt and all the state and local debt I have already outlined.

Right now, we are not asked to prioritize. And when someone comes along to match revenue and expenses, the resulting screams ala this thread are what happens. The DH has already run several stories from local governments begging not to be cut back.

I don't relish the cuts either despite my earlier trolling. But I do want revenues and expenses to be matched. I am willing to do whatever it takes to balance those things.

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