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 Post subject: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:18 pm 
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Boras gonna Boras I guess. From Ken Rosenthal.

Agent Scott Boras will not blame baseball's collective-bargaining agreement if the Chicago Cubs decline to include third baseman Kris Bryant on their Opening Day roster.
Boras, who represents Bryant, will blame Cubs owner Tom Ricketts.
“Cubs ownership has a choice,” Boras told FOX Sports on Tuesday. “Are they going to present to their market that they are trying to win? Tom Ricketts said they were all about winning.
“When someone says it’s the system, no, it’s a choice — the choice of winning.”
Cubs president Theo Epstein countered, “Kris Bryant's development path has absolutely nothing to do with ownership, period. As with all our baseball decisions, I will determine where Kris begins the 2015 season after consulting with members of our baseball operations staff. Comments from agents, media members and anybody outside our organization will be ignored.”
Bryant’s status has become a major story due to his stellar offensive performance in spring training — he is 10 for 23 with a major-league leading six homers.
The Cubs, however, could decide to start Bryant, 23, at Triple-A Iowa — and if they postpone his major-league arrival for at least 12 days, it will enable them to gain an additional year of control over Bryant before he becomes a free agent, according to baseball’s collective-bargaining agreement.

The difference will determine whether Bryant is eligible for free agency entering his age 29 or age 30 season. Boras’ preference for his clients to determine their values on the open market, however, could work against Bryant. The Cubs, knowing that Bryant is unlikely to accept a long-term extension before reaching free agency, surely covet the extra year of control.
There is a bigger picture as well.
The Cubs, after hiring manager Joe Maddon and signing free-agent left-hander Jon Lester to a $155 million contract this winter, are embarking upon a renewed push to win their first World Series since 1908.
“Obviously, we all believe this year’s team has what it takes to win the division and go to the playoffs,” Ricketts told reporters at the start of spring training. “... We’re looking forward to winning. We feel this is the year we start to show results.”
Boras said that Bryant should be part of the Cubs’ immediate plan, pointing to the successes of several rookies who made Opening Day rosters in recent years and in turn helped their clubs.
“This is no different than [Jason] Heyward, Elvis Andrus, [Troy] Tulowitzki, Austin Jackson, [Jose] Fernandez with the Marlins,” Boras said. “Their owners had the same choice [Ricketts] has. They were about winning and they went for it. And those clubs got the result and effect of players performing and winning, in some cases going to the World Series.”
Three of those players — Andrus, Jackson and Fernandez — are Boras clients. Heyward helped the Braves win a wild card in 2010. Tulowitzki, after making his major-league debut the previous September, helped the Rockies reach the World Series in 2007.
Albert Pujols, who joined the Cardinals in 2001, is another example of a rookie who helped his team to the playoffs after making the Opening Day roster.




Epstein, however, said that Bryant is not a finished product.
“As I told Kris last September and again at the start of spring training, we view him as nearly big league ready,” Epstein said. “The remaining area for improvement is his defense — something Kris agrees with.
“Kris is 6-foot-5½ and therefore faces obstacles other third basemen don't face. This spring training we wanted him to work on his footwork, his first step, his throwing and other fundamentals with as many game repetitions as possible. More than anything, we want him to get in a good rhythm defensively before he makes his major-league debut.
“That has not happened yet, in part due to some shoulder fatigue that is not a concern but has limited the amount of game action he's been able to have at third base.”
Bryant has not played the field since last Thursday because of his shoulder issue. He has handled only eight chances all spring in Cactus League games, and committed two throwing errors.
“If enough time remains to get Kris into a good rhythm defensively at, we may consider putting him on the club. If not, we see nothing wrong with using the early part of the season at Iowa to get him in that rhythm,” Epstein said. “We believe he's going to be an outstanding defender in time; we want him comfortable when he makes the leap to the highest level.”
The Cubs last season had mixed results with two highly regarded youngsters whom they promoted to the majors — right fielder Jorge Soler enjoyed success, while second baseman Javier Baez struggled.
Bryant, completing his first full professional season, did not receive a September call-up. The Cubs said they wanted him to relax, get away from the game and reflect upon his performance. They did not ask him to play winter ball.


Boras said that Bryant warranted a call-up.
“I believe the issue with Kris Bryant is not whether he should be on the 2015 team. The issue is, why wasn’t he called up in September of last year when he could have prepared for the 2015 season?” Boras said.
“He was the [MLB] Minor League Player of the Year. Others who did not perform as well were called up. And that issue is even more relevant today.”
Epstein, though, said that Bryant could benefit from additional time at Triple- A, where he has appeared in only 70 games and made only 297 plate appearances.
“In my experience, even the best prospects are well served with significant time at the Triple-A level,” said Epstein, who previously was the Red Sox’s general manager.
“[Boston's] Dustin Pedroia had 162 games and 733 plate appearances at Triple-A before making his major-league debut. Anthony Rizzo had 163 games and 697 plate appearances at Triple-A before we called him up for good with the Cubs.
“There is no hard-and-fast rule, but some of the players we have moved more quickly have struggled without the extensive Triple-A experience. We have one chance to get this right with Kris, and we will make the best baseball decision we can.”
ken rosenthal \ mlb \ kris bryant \ cubs


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:28 pm 
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Screw Boros. Theo is doing the right thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:10 am 
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It is exactly 12 days Bryant would stay in the minors...

I havent stated which would be right, him staying down in the minors or being brought up right away, but if it s 12 days, you keep down there without a doubt.

if I am wrng about what I heard on the 12 days, than I will reconsider, but for 12 days, I am fine with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:22 am 
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bigfan wrote:
It is exactly 12 days Bryant would stay in the minors...

I havent stated which would be right, him staying down in the minors or being brought up right away, but if it s 12 days, you keep down there without a doubt.

if I am wrng about what I heard on the 12 days, than I will reconsider, but for 12 days, I am fine with it.


There is a two way street though. When the Cubs got Maddon I heard from SOME Cub fans that he was going to help them sign free agents. Whatever help Maddon might give them is undoubtedly outweighed by the perceived mistreatment of a guy like Bryant. You can't go around calling guys "Babe Fuckin' Ruth" on one hand and saying they need more time in the minors on the other without looking like an asshole. Beyond that, I think there is protocol about leaving a guy down there. You really can't slap him in the face by obviously sticking him the minors for exactly 12 days. I mean, you can, but there will surely be repercussions later. Still, you can't let Scott Boras run your ballclub. He is gonna do whatever is best for him and his player. Epstein and Ricketts have to do whatever is best for the Cubs. I'm not sure sending him down is that thing though. Maybe it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:16 am 
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Cubs president Theo Epstein countered, “Kris Bryant's development path has absolutely nothing to do with ownership, period. As with all our baseball decisions, I will determine where Kris begins the 2015 season after consulting with members of our baseball operations staff. Comments from agents, media members and anybody outside our organization will be ignored.”


Rack him.


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:19 am 
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If Olt was hitless in spring, I may feel differently. But he has also looked good. There is no rush for Bryant...if he is up in early May, I'm content.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:30 am 
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Just to play Boras advocate


Mike Trout was held down for a month in 2012

Here is the result

Split W L RS RA WP
April 8 15 80 94 .348
May 18 11 119 97 .621
June 17 9 138 106 .654
July 14 12 138 119 .538
August 13 15 156 172 .464
September 18 9 127 89 .667
October 1 2 9 22 .333


Angels missed wild card by 4 games


I dont think Bryant is the difference between playoffs and no playoffs for the 2015 Cubs but that kind of thing is possible as evidenced by Trout's situation.


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:35 am 
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Dolphin called him out first.


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:58 am 
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to not have him on opening day is a clear statement that you are not doing everything to win THIS year, despite management statements otherwise

It really cannot be interpreted any other way.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:59 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Cubs president Theo Epstein countered, “Kris Bryant's development path has absolutely nothing to do with ownership, period. As with all our baseball decisions, I will determine where Kris begins the 2015 season after consulting with members of our baseball operations staff. Comments from agents, media members and anybody outside our organization will be ignored.”


Rack him.



Wow he really is teflon Theo.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:01 am 
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pittmike wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Cubs president Theo Epstein countered, “Kris Bryant's development path has absolutely nothing to do with ownership, period. As with all our baseball decisions, I will determine where Kris begins the 2015 season after consulting with members of our baseball operations staff. Comments from agents, media members and anybody outside our organization will be ignored.”


Rack him.



Wow he really is teflon Theo.

What are you talking about?

I think that is the perfect response to Boras and it could have been anyone saying it.


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:02 am 
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On the one hand, business management is talking about Yankees level revenue by 2019. On the other hand, field operations worries about the ability to sign a player.

Have the Yankees ever lost a player they wanted to keep other than Robertson, who was looking for multiple world series?

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:02 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
pittmike wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Cubs president Theo Epstein countered, “Kris Bryant's development path has absolutely nothing to do with ownership, period. As with all our baseball decisions, I will determine where Kris begins the 2015 season after consulting with members of our baseball operations staff. Comments from agents, media members and anybody outside our organization will be ignored.”


Rack him.



Wow he really is teflon Theo.

What are you talking about?

I think that is the perfect response to Boras and it could have been anyone saying it.


its appropriate but completely disengenuous

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:04 am 
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I dont think signing Bryant long term is even a factor here. I think its just a way of doing things and they dont want to make an exception. Maybe its being too stubborn.


But, they are not worrying about re-signing him in 4 years, imo


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:05 am 
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I'm not necessarily against assuring yourself of an extra year of player control, but that isn't the only consideration. When I hear bernstein talk about it, his perspective comes off like that of a robber baron, tossing a stale pasty down a mineshaft to the underlings. Now, that may sound silly when we're talking about a guy who received a multimillion dollar signing bonus, but if this guy is really a centerpiece of your franchise, you may want to consider his feelings and his outlook about what you think you're building. Just because a company can pay all its workers minimum wage, that doesn't mean it's the "smart" move.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:05 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
pittmike wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Cubs president Theo Epstein countered, “Kris Bryant's development path has absolutely nothing to do with ownership, period. As with all our baseball decisions, I will determine where Kris begins the 2015 season after consulting with members of our baseball operations staff. Comments from agents, media members and anybody outside our organization will be ignored.”


Rack him.



Wow he really is teflon Theo.

What are you talking about?

I think that is the perfect response to Boras and it could have been anyone saying it.


its appropriate but completely disengenuous

What part do you think is disingenuous?


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:06 am 
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It's nice that Boras is concerned about the team doing well and not his client getting to F/A any sooner.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:08 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I'm not necessarily against assuring yourself of an extra year of player control, but that isn't the only consideration. When I hear bernstein talk about it, his perspective comes off like that of a robber baron, tossing a stale pasty down a mineshaft to the underlings. Now, that may sound silly when we're talking about a guy who received a multimillion dollar signing bonus, but if this guy is really a centerpiece of your franchise, you may want to consider his feelings and his outlook about what you think you're building. Just because a company can pay all its workers minimum wage, that doesn't mean it's the "smart" move.

You think Boras or Bryant will consider the Cubs feelings when he hits free agency or renegotiates?

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:09 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
pittmike wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Cubs president Theo Epstein countered, “Kris Bryant's development path has absolutely nothing to do with ownership, period. As with all our baseball decisions, I will determine where Kris begins the 2015 season after consulting with members of our baseball operations staff. Comments from agents, media members and anybody outside our organization will be ignored.”


Rack him.



Wow he really is teflon Theo.

What are you talking about?

I think that is the perfect response to Boras and it could have been anyone saying it.


It sounds like he is just saying it is a baseball thing. I don't doubt at all it is a money/time thing. Just me.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:09 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
It's nice that Boras is concerned about the team doing well and not his client getting to F/A any sooner.

I dont think he's even pretending to care about the team, is he?

He's just doing his job.


BTW, this is not correct

The Cubs, knowing that Bryant is unlikely to accept a long-term extension before reaching free agency

Almost every good young player (Longoria, Trout, Howard) accepts a long term extension to get off the pay scale.


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:10 am 
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pittmike wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
pittmike wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Cubs president Theo Epstein countered, “Kris Bryant's development path has absolutely nothing to do with ownership, period. As with all our baseball decisions, I will determine where Kris begins the 2015 season after consulting with members of our baseball operations staff. Comments from agents, media members and anybody outside our organization will be ignored.”


Rack him.



Wow he really is teflon Theo.

What are you talking about?

I think that is the perfect response to Boras and it could have been anyone saying it.


It sounds like he is just saying it is a baseball thing. I don't doubt at all it is a money/time thing. Just me.

Ok, why would that make him Teflon Theo?

Do you think Theo's repsonse was a good one? What would you have him say?


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:11 am 
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He is teflon from what I see because he says this or anything really and it is never questioned really. Here I think he isn't completely truthful but you rack him.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:15 am 
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pittmike wrote:
He is teflon from what I see because he says this or anything really and it is never questioned really. Here I think he isn't completely truthful but you rack him.

I rack him because it's a perfect response.

Literally could not have been any better. If Rich Hahn said the same thing, Id rack him. In fact, I probably have racked other gms on this board for similar comments.

Perhaps, the bias on Eptein lies with you?


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:15 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I'm not necessarily against assuring yourself of an extra year of player control, but that isn't the only consideration. When I hear bernstein talk about it, his perspective comes off like that of a robber baron, tossing a stale pasty down a mineshaft to the underlings. Now, that may sound silly when we're talking about a guy who received a multimillion dollar signing bonus, but if this guy is really a centerpiece of your franchise, you may want to consider his feelings and his outlook about what you think you're building. Just because a company can pay all its workers minimum wage, that doesn't mean it's the "smart" move.

You think Boras or Bryant will consider the Cubs feelings when he hits free agency or renegotiates?


No, but they won't need anything from the Cubs at that point. The Cubs are expecting things from Bryant for a long time. If he's really such a great asset, I would think you would want to treat him as a valuable asset. His old man was already grumbling about them extending his stay in the minors and that was a year ago. Sure, the Cubs have every right to stick him at Iowa for two weeks. I'm just not sure if it's a great idea to fuck with Babe Ruth or Mike Schmidt or whoever they think he is that way. Is the value of that extra season of control worth having a franchise centerpiece come to the big league with the attitude that "these fucker are jerking me off"? I don't know. Maybe it is. I'm sure he'll get over it. That's probably what the Cubs think.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:18 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
It's nice that Boras is concerned about the team doing well and not his client getting to F/A any sooner.

I dont think he's even pretending to care about the team, is he?

He's just doing his job.


BTW, this is not correct

The Cubs, knowing that Bryant is unlikely to accept a long-term extension before reaching free agency

Almost every good young player (Longoria, Trout, Howard) accepts a long term extension to get off the pay scale.



Boras guys usually don't though.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:25 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
It's nice that Boras is concerned about the team doing well and not his client getting to F/A any sooner.

I dont think he's even pretending to care about the team, is he?

He's just doing his job.


BTW, this is not correct

The Cubs, knowing that Bryant is unlikely to accept a long-term extension before reaching free agency

Almost every good young player (Longoria, Trout, Howard) accepts a long term extension to get off the pay scale.



Boras guys usually don't though.

Some do, some dont, but to say it like it's a fact or foregone conclusion is silly


“I don’t think there’s any question that the reason a club offers a player guarantees when they don’t have to is they deem it to be beneficial to them -- just by the nature that they offer them,” Boras said. “So if the club is doing something beneficial for the club, obviously most likely it’s not beneficial to the player.

“On the other side, I do think there’s a melding in there. There are situations -- I’ve done contracts for Carlos Gonzalez, or just recently I did one for Elvis Andrus -- to where there is a melding of the club’s wants and the player’s wants where you do things in advance of free agency.”


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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:27 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
It's nice that Boras is concerned about the team doing well and not his client getting to F/A any sooner.

I dont think he's even pretending to care about the team, is he?

He's just doing his job.


BTW, this is not correct

The Cubs, knowing that Bryant is unlikely to accept a long-term extension before reaching free agency

Almost every good young player (Longoria, Trout, Howard) accepts a long term extension to get off the pay scale.



Boras guys usually don't though.

Some do, some dont, but to say it like it's a fact or foregone conclusion is silly


“I don’t think there’s any question that the reason a club offers a player guarantees when they don’t have to is they deem it to be beneficial to them -- just by the nature that they offer them,” Boras said. “So if the club is doing something beneficial for the club, obviously most likely it’s not beneficial to the player.

“On the other side, I do think there’s a melding in there. There are situations -- I’ve done contracts for Carlos Gonzalez, or just recently I did one for Elvis Andrus -- to where there is a melding of the club’s wants and the player’s wants where you do things in advance of free agency.”



Right, but as a general philosophy he's looking to get his guys to free agency as quickly as possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:28 am 
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Scorehead wrote:
Screw Boros. Theo is doing the right thing.

Yes for the Cubs he is, for the player no. Now the question is, does it piss Bryant off enough that he won't sign long term with the club?

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
Screw Boros. Theo is doing the right thing.

Yes for the Cubs he is, for the player no. Now the question is, does it piss Bryant off enough that he won't sign long term with the club?

I'm going to think its not going to matter one way or the other

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 Post subject: Re: Boras calls out Theo
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rogers park bryan wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
It's nice that Boras is concerned about the team doing well and not his client getting to F/A any sooner.

I dont think he's even pretending to care about the team, is he?

He's just doing his job.


BTW, this is not correct

The Cubs, knowing that Bryant is unlikely to accept a long-term extension before reaching free agency

Almost every good young player (Longoria, Trout, Howard) accepts a long term extension to get off the pay scale.

Boras clients usually don't.

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