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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:22 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
The point is that Pace has made it far more likely that the bears will be a play off team in 2015.
That is probably true.

I just don't know how you watch last years team and say "Let's go for it all next year!".


Stay competitive while you build.

They will have a ton of cap money next year as well. Players will want to come play here.

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:23 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
The point is that Pace has made it far more likely that the bears will be a play off team in 2015.
That is probably true.

I just don't know how you watch last years team and say "Let's go for it all next year!".


they arent going for it all this year... they signed vets to 1 year deals... the future was not mortgaged at all like it was last year with allen, jennings, cutler etc.... those clowns got multiyear deals for big $$$ limiting future cap space for an all in year last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:24 pm 
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billypootons wrote:
unless there is an andrew luck coming out next year i dont want a tank season. if you draft well overall... drafting 3 vs. 15 shouldnt matter in the long run. and it is definitely not worth struggling through another season like last year purely for draft position.
We've seen the same story every year since the Super Bowl team.

"I plan to draft well" isn't a strategy.

I don't want them to tank. I want them to get younger. If a side effect is picking at 3 instead of 7 then all the better.

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:25 pm 
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continually sign old free agents and cut 2nd and 3rd rounders who never played.

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:25 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
"I plan to draft well" isn't a strategy.



Are you trolling Cub fans again?

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:25 pm 
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billypootons wrote:
they arent going for it all this year... they signed vets to 1 year deals... the future was not mortgaged at all like it was last year with allen, jennings, cutler etc.... those clowns got multiyear deals for big $$$ limiting future cap space for an all in year last year.
So then what is the point? What value do these veterans provide?

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:26 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
billypootons wrote:
unless there is an andrew luck coming out next year i dont want a tank season. if you draft well overall... drafting 3 vs. 15 shouldnt matter in the long run. and it is definitely not worth struggling through another season like last year purely for draft position.
We've seen the same story every year since the Super Bowl team.

"I plan to draft well" isn't a strategy.

I don't want them to tank. I want them to get younger. If a side effect is picking at 3 instead of 7 then all the better.


what am i not explaining well? to get younger you need to draft players that can play... hence get better at drafting is the proper approach... any young FA's that are good get paid big $$ (like McPhee) any younger player that is on the street right now is not good at football. You cant just get younger magically... it comes from good drafting


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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:26 pm 
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This signing, along with the other old FAs smacks of desperation and just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks.

This Bears team is going to suck this year as well as next year because they are run by a buffoon and an old lady.

This is the Packers division to lose because Green Bay's head office is full of competent people.

I feel sorry for anyone who is excited about this season...or the one after.

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:30 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
billypootons wrote:
they arent going for it all this year... they signed vets to 1 year deals... the future was not mortgaged at all like it was last year with allen, jennings, cutler etc.... those clowns got multiyear deals for big $$$ limiting future cap space for an all in year last year.
So then what is the point? What value do these veterans provide?


the vets arent god awful like kaseem greene, isiah frey, brock vereen etc...? I'm going to blindly trust this new coaching staff and D coordinator to grow young talent... i dont see value in playing younger players just because they are younger... if they dont know what they are doing they shouldn't be on the field until they learn what they need to do in practice/film room. if a younger player is close to the skill level of the vet ahead of him... i'm going to trust that the younger player will get playing time or possibly even replace the vet as the season moves along


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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:30 pm 
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billypootons wrote:
what am i not explaining well? to get younger you need to draft players that can play... hence get better at drafting is the proper approach... any young FA's that are good get paid big $$ (like McPhee) any younger player that is on the street right now is not good at football. You cant just get younger magically... it comes from good drafting
20% of NFL starters were undrafted free agents. The NFL average is 13 players per team who were undrafted. You don't just need draft picks. You can dominate that area(like Seattle has). Many of them will be busts but so what?

Each team has roughly the same amount of draft picks. Of course you want to draft well, but that isn't a plan. That is like saying the plan for Jay Cutler is to get him to play well.

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:33 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
billypootons wrote:
what am i not explaining well? to get younger you need to draft players that can play... hence get better at drafting is the proper approach... any young FA's that are good get paid big $$ (like McPhee) any younger player that is on the street right now is not good at football. You cant just get younger magically... it comes from good drafting
20% of NFL starters were undrafted free agents. The NFL average is 13 players per team who were undrafted. You don't just need draft picks. You can dominate that area(like Seattle has). Many of them will be busts but so what?

Each team has roughly the same amount of draft picks. Of course you want to draft well, but that isn't a plan. That is like saying the plan for Jay Cutler is to get him to play well.


how is finding good undrafted FA's any different than drafting well? its the same thing get better at talent evaulation... as it stands the bears have been awful in this area for years... get better at that and the team will get better in the long run.... this has nothing to do with signing vets to 1 year cheap deals. you seem to be of the position that you play the young players over the vets no matter how awful the young players are and go from there. I'd rather play a vet over a young player who had no idea what he is doing because playing that type of young player isnt good for team or player's development. as it stands the bears young players are generally speaking real bad.... so over the next 2-3 years hopefully ryan pave's talent evaluation/drafting will be good enough that the team's pool of young players becomes good and there isnt a need to sign vets as frequently


Last edited by billypootons on Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:34 pm 
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billypootons wrote:
the vets arent god awful like kaseem greene, isiah frey, brock vereen etc...? I'm going to blindly trust this new coaching staff and D coordinator to grow young talent... i dont see value in playing younger players just because they are younger... if they dont know what they are doing they shouldn't be on the field until they learn what they need to do in practice/film room. if a younger player is close to the skill level of the vet ahead of him... i'm going to trust that the younger player will get playing time or possibly even replace the vet as the season moves along
There is great value in playing younger players. You learn if they can play, and you open up other roster spots for others who may end up being able to play.

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20150120/SPORTS/150129963

So, these older veterans on one year deals:
1) Take a spot from a young player.
2) Provide enough of an improvement to turn a below average team mediocre.
3) Aren't signed long term.

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:35 pm 
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billypootons wrote:
how is finding good undrafted FA's any different than drafting well? its the same thing get better at talent evaulation... as it stands the bears have been awful in this area for years... get better at that and the team will get better in the long run.... this has nothing to do with signing vets to 1 year cheap deals
It is a numbers game. These veterans take a roster spot because in August they are "better".

Every veteran they sign makes it less likely they find a UFA who can contribute.

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:35 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
continually sign old free agents and cut 2nd and 3rd rounders who never played.



That's the issue Pace is dealing with.

He is being smart when he signs affordable one year deals to fill holes left by the ineptitude of Phil Emery.

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:36 pm 
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Seattle:

Wilson 3rd Round
Sherman 5th
Chancellor 5th

Top 10 picks do not matter in NFL at the same level of other sports.

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:40 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Seattle:

Wilson 3rd Round
Sherman 5th
Chancellor 5th

Top 10 picks do not matter in NFL at the same level of other sports.
Besides the NBA, you can do this for any other sport very easily.

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:41 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
billypootons wrote:
how is finding good undrafted FA's any different than drafting well? its the same thing get better at talent evaulation... as it stands the bears have been awful in this area for years... get better at that and the team will get better in the long run.... this has nothing to do with signing vets to 1 year cheap deals
It is a numbers game. These veterans take a roster spot because in August they are "better".

Every veteran they sign makes it less likely they find a UFA who can contribute.


do they not have 90 players at the start of camp? do they not have a practice squad to stash Undrafted FA's? so you are saying the undrafted FA's who are worse than the practice squad undrafted FA's are worth keeping around? that's like saying the pre-season 4th string heoroes like dane sanzenbacker or chris williams type players are worth keeping


Last edited by billypootons on Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:42 pm 
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I'll ask once again.

In this draft, would you rather have the 7th pick or the 3rd pick?

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:45 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'll ask once again.

In this draft, would you rather have the 7th pick or the 3rd pick?


I give up, if you cant understand that being better at talent evaluation/drafting is what the bears need to do to achieve sustained success for future years and that signing vets to 1 year deals has literally no impact on that stated goal there isnt a point in continuing this conversation


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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:49 pm 
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billypootons wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'll ask once again.

In this draft, would you rather have the 7th pick or the 3rd pick?


I give up, if you cant understand that being better at talent evaluation/drafting is what the bears need to do to achieve sustained success for future years and that signing vets to 1 year deals has literally no impact on that stated goal there isnt a point in continuing this conversation
They can do that regardless. If Pace is the worlds greatest drafter he will do better with higher picks than lower picks.

In this draft, Pace is not going to get a chance to draft his favorite player in the draft because he won't be available.

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:50 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
The three signings yesterday were one year deals for cheap money.
I don't care if they were paying to play for the Bears.
Seacrest wrote:
And the Bears were 10-6 in year one and a blown assignment in week 17 from making the play-offs in year two.
That was pretty cool!

I hope we almost make the playoffs every year!



The point is that Pace has made it far more likely that the bears will be a play off team in 2015.

The Packers have done nothing.

The Lions have regressed. A lot.

And the Vikings aren't looking any better either.

As pootons said, he will be judged by his drafts.

The Viking are miles ahead of the Bears and will give the Packers issues next year.

The Bears and Lions will slap fight for the right to a 7-9 record


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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:52 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'll ask once again.

In this draft, would you rather have the 7th pick or the 3rd pick?


Makes no difference if you know how to draft.

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:53 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'll ask once again.

In this draft, would you rather have the 7th pick or the 3rd pick?


Makes no difference if you know how to draft.
Fair enough. Pace should pull a Vikings and wait until pick 30 to provide his selection!

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:55 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'll ask once again.

In this draft, would you rather have the 7th pick or the 3rd pick?


Makes no difference if you know how to draft.
Fair enough. Pace should pull a Vikings and wait until pick 30 to provide his selection!


Drafting in the top 10 every year has done wonders for the Raiders and Jaguars!!

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:57 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Drafting in the top 10 every year has done wonders for the Raiders and Jaguars!!
Maybe they didn't know the proper strategy is to "draft well" like we've figured out in this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:59 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Drafting in the top 10 every year has done wonders for the Raiders and Jaguars!!
Maybe they didn't know the proper strategy is to "draft well" like we've figured out in this thread.


You still haven't figured out it is very easy to try every year in the NFL and still get immediate impact players in every draft.

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conns7901 wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:00 pm 
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billypootons wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'll ask once again.

In this draft, would you rather have the 7th pick or the 3rd pick?


I give up, if you cant understand that being better at talent evaluation/drafting is what the bears need to do to achieve sustained success for future years and that signing vets to 1 year deals has literally no impact on that stated goal there isnt a point in continuing this conversation

1 year veteran deals do have an impact.

A roster spot and snaps given to a veteran is obviously one spot and snaps less given to a young player. There's an opportunity cost.

The Mason Foster and Jarvis Jenkins signings seem OK as the guys are 26 so perhaps they can become rotational players.

Next year the Bears have no shot to get into the playoffs. Snaps should be given to young players to gain experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:41 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Drafting in the top 10 every year has done wonders for the Raiders and Jaguars!!
Maybe they didn't know the proper strategy is to "draft well" like we've figured out in this thread.


You still haven't figured out it is very easy to try every year in the NFL and still get immediate impact players in every draft.
It's possible to draft a QB in the 6th round and have him turn into a hall of famer.

I'll still take my chances with picking higher.

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Last edited by Brick on Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:50 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
The point is that Pace has made it far more likely that the bears will be a play off team in 2015.
That is probably true.

I just don't know how you watch last years team and say "Let's go for it all next year!".


Stay competitive while you build.

They will have a ton of cap money next year as well. Players will want to come play here.


The most successful NFL teams typically build their rosters through the draft, not free agency.

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 Post subject: Re: Ray Mac
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:04 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
billypootons wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'll ask once again.

In this draft, would you rather have the 7th pick or the 3rd pick?


I give up, if you cant understand that being better at talent evaluation/drafting is what the bears need to do to achieve sustained success for future years and that signing vets to 1 year deals has literally no impact on that stated goal there isnt a point in continuing this conversation

1 year veteran deals do have an impact.

A roster spot and snaps given to a veteran is obviously one spot and snaps less given to a young player. There's an opportunity cost.

The Mason Foster and Jarvis Jenkins signings seem OK as the guys are 26 so perhaps they can become rotational players.

Next year the Bears have no shot to get into the playoffs. Snaps should be given to young players to gain experience.



As a Packer fan, I understand your sentiment.

But the Bears have greatly improved their defense. And time will tell if a pass rush comes from all of their work. Because as Buffalo showed everyone, Rodgers, (and every other QB) are very normal with a hand in their face.

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