Batting the pitcher 8th

jimmypasta · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:28 pm

I called LaRussa a knob for trying this crap now we have a Cubs manager entertaining the thought?
150 years of baseball strategy and guys like LaRussa & Maddon think they are going to reinvent the wheel. I can see it working when you have an exceptional hitter like Travis Wood pitching but even then,I feel it's best to have your 8th place hitter a guy that actually see's ML pitching more than every 5th day.

IMU · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:38 pm

jimmypasta wrote:

I called LaRussa a knob for trying this crap now we have a Cubs manager entertaining the thought?
150 years of baseball strategy and guys like LaRussa & Maddon think they are going to reinvent the wheel. I can see it working when you have an exceptional hitter like Travis Wood pitching but even then,I feel it's best to have your 8th place hitter a guy that actually see's ML pitching more than every 5th day.

I've always liked this idea. Lineups should not be viewed as just 1-9. It isn't that simple...you cycle through them. This is all about giving your best guys more chances to drive in runs.

KDdidit · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:53 pm

How's Bryant going to drive in the #9 from AAA anyway?

RFDC · **Joined:** Sun May 11, 2008 4:11 pm **Posts:** 57199

Does it really matter if the pitcher bats 8th or 9th?

No.

Darkside · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:50 pm

RFDC wrote:

Does it really matter if the pitcher bats 8th or 9th?

No.

I'd assume that the 8th spot over the course of a season has a couple dozen more at bats than the 9th spot?

lipidquadcab · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:11 pm

RFDC wrote:

Does it really matter if the pitcher bats 8th or 9th?

No.

Certainly matters to the guy batting 7th.

RFDC · **Joined:** Sun May 11, 2008 4:11 pm **Posts:** 57199

Darkside wrote:

RFDC wrote:

Does it really matter if the pitcher bats 8th or 9th?

No.

I'd assume that the 8th spot over the course of a season has a couple dozen more at bats than the 9th spot?

I don't really think that is reason enough to argue one way or the other.

There are also situations that will come up throughout the year where having a regular batter in the 9 spot will be to your advantage.

I just really don't think it matters.

Bat pitcher 9th, bat him 8th. Potato, Potatoe

Zippy-The-Pinhead · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:15 pm

RFDC wrote:

Darkside wrote:

RFDC wrote:

Does it really matter if the pitcher bats 8th or 9th?

No.

I'd assume that the 8th spot over the course of a season has a couple dozen more at bats than the 9th spot?

I don't really think that is reason enough to argue one way or the other.

There are also situations that will come up throughout the year where having a regular batter in the 9 spot will be to your advantage.

I just really don't think it matters.

Bat pitcher 9th, bat him 8th. Potato, Potatoe

does that apply to batting 7th too?

IMU · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:20 pm

You want to give your best guys as many at bats as possible, and you want to give your best guys as many RBI opportunities as possible.

Batting the pitcher 8th is supposed to help both of those. If you move your best hitter to the fourth spot, he loses at bats over the season. If you move him second, he loses RBI opportunity. This allows 2-3 people to get on base in front of your 3 hitter.

Who cares about the guys hitting 8th? I don't care if the former 8th hitter gets 12 less at-bats throughout the season. Teams don't score most of their runs 6-9.

RFDC · **Joined:** Sun May 11, 2008 4:11 pm **Posts:** 57199

Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:

RFDC wrote:

Darkside wrote:

RFDC wrote:

Does it really matter if the pitcher bats 8th or 9th?

No.

I'd assume that the 8th spot over the course of a season has a couple dozen more at bats than the 9th spot?

I don't really think that is reason enough to argue one way or the other.

There are also situations that will come up throughout the year where having a regular batter in the 9 spot will be to your advantage.

I just really don't think it matters.

Bat pitcher 9th, bat him 8th. Potato, Potatoe

does that apply to batting 7th too?

Well obviously I don't think you want to go crazy and bat the pitcher any higher than 8. But the pitcher has to bat. Some situations will be better for him to be in the 9 hole, others will work out better with him in the 8.

Personally, I would prefer the traditional thing of batting him 9th. But I don't think it is anything to get irritated about it. Maddon has proved himself a pretty darn good coach so far in his career if he wants to go with the 8 hole then I am willing to let him do that without complaining.

lipidquadcab · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:26 pm

Who are you putting at 9th spot though? If it's the guy who would have been batting 8th, how often is he really getting on base in front of the top of the order anyways?

Darkside · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:28 pm

Do that without complaining?
Dude.
Hello?

This is CSFMB.

Rod · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:30 pm

I think it depends on the pitcher, doesn't it?

The optimal batting order for overall run production is to set it by OBP like this: #1, #4, #2, #5, #3, #6, #7, #8, #9. I'm sure I'll get argument over that from some of the same people who insist RBI and starter pitchers' winning percentage is "meaningless".

Darkside · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:31 pm

I'd think you want your highest slugging percentage batting 3rd regardless of their OBP.

Rod · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:36 pm

Darkside wrote:

I'd think you want your highest slugging percentage batting 3rd regardless of their OBP.

I'm just telling you the lineup that will score the most runs overall based on any type of computer modeling you can find. It's not that slugging doesn't matter, but the critical thing is the spots where making an out has the most effect.

Rod · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:39 pm

I should also point out that this is based on a view of the game that I don't particularly subscribe to, i.e. that the object is to score as many as possible and allow as few as possible and let randomness sort out where the runs fall. There's the God of Correlation rearing his head once again.

jimmypasta · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:40 pm

Baseball has been around since 1875 or so. How many thousands of Major & Minor league managers did not bat the pitcher 8th in that span of time? Of course guys like LaRussa & now Maddon have a better idea. Like my original post said,I would rather have a guy that bats everyday in the 8th spot.

lipidquadcab · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:41 pm

I'd also like to point out that most of the time this is a moot point since the pitchers spot is usually moved around in the late innings due to a double switch.

Darkside · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:42 pm

You don't think you should score as many runs as possible?

Rod · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:43 pm

jimmypasta wrote:

Baseball has been around since 1875 or so. How many thousands of Major & Minor league managers did not bat the pitcher 8th in that span of time? Of course guys like LaRussa & now Maddon have a better idea. Like my original post said,I would rather have a guy that bats everyday in the 8th spot.

Guys rode horses around for a thousand years before Daimler and Maybach invented the automobile. Where would you like me to hang up your saddle, jimmy?

Rod · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:44 pm

Darkside wrote:

You don't think you should score as many runs as possible?

Ideally, I think you should simply score one more than the other team in each game you play. Everything else is meaningless. Literally.

jimmypasta · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:45 pm

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

jimmypasta wrote:

Baseball has been around since 1875 or so. How many thousands of Major & Minor league managers did not bat the pitcher 8th in that span of time? Of course guys like LaRussa & now Maddon have a better idea. Like my original post said,I would rather have a guy that bats everyday in the 8th spot.

Guys rode horses around for a thousand years before Daimler and Maybach invented the automobile. Where would you like me to hang up your saddle, jimmy?

Technology is constantly changing but baseball has pretty much remained the same.

Darkside · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:46 pm

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Darkside wrote:

You don't think you should score as many runs as possible?

Ideally, I think you should simply score one more than the other team in each game you play. Everything else is meaningless. Literally.

How do you know when you've scored one more than your opponent will score?

jimmypasta · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:47 pm

Darkside wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Darkside wrote:

You don't think you should score as many runs as possible?

Ideally, I think you should simply score one more than the other team in each game you play. Everything else is meaningless. Literally.

How do you know when you've scored one more than your opponent will score?

good question.

Rod · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:49 pm

Darkside wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Darkside wrote:

You don't think you should score as many runs as possible?

Ideally, I think you should simply score one more than the other team in each game you play. Everything else is meaningless. Literally.

How do you know when you've scored one more than your opponent will score?

When they hoist the L flag on the centerfield scoreboard.

Darkside · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:50 pm

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Darkside wrote:

You don't think you should score as many runs as possible?

Ideally, I think you should simply score one more than the other team in each game you play. Everything else is meaningless. Literally.

Upon further reflection, this may be the single worst sports thought I have ever heard or read in my entire life.
Literally. Are you drunk?

Rod · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:51 pm

Darkside wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Darkside wrote:

You don't think you should score as many runs as possible?

Ideally, I think you should simply score one more than the other team in each game you play. Everything else is meaningless. Literally.

Upon further reflection, this may be the single worst sports thought I have ever heard or read in my entire life.
Literally. Are you drunk?

These concepts may be too advanced for you.

Darkside · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:52 pm

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Darkside wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Darkside wrote:

You don't think you should score as many runs as possible?

Ideally, I think you should simply score one more than the other team in each game you play. Everything else is meaningless. Literally.

How do you know when you've scored one more than your opponent will score?

When they hoist the L flag on the centerfield scoreboard.

Even your snarky retort was wrong.
Dude log off and sober up.

Darkside · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:55 pm

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Darkside wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Darkside wrote:

You don't think you should score as many runs as possible?

Ideally, I think you should simply score one more than the other team in each game you play. Everything else is meaningless. Literally.

Upon further reflection, this may be the single worst sports thought I have ever heard or read in my entire life.
Literally. Are you drunk?

These concepts may be too advanced for you.

Wrong. You make no sense. You score as many runs as possible. That's it. That's all.
As you never know what your opponent will score you score as much as possible. Particularly when your a visiting team and you don't get a chance to outscore your opponent by a certain point.

Aargh. This has to be simple trolling. There is no other reasonable explanation.

lipidquadcab · **Posted:** Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:55 pm

Darkside wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Darkside wrote:

You don't think you should score as many runs as possible?

Ideally, I think you should simply score one more than the other team in each game you play. Everything else is meaningless. Literally.

Upon further reflection, this may be the single worst sports thought I have ever heard or read in my entire life.
Literally.

You must have missed this guy's work...

http://score670.com/phpBB/search.php?author_id=10716&sr=posts

Batting the pitcher 8th

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