jimmypasta - perception is reality. You seem to be the most "complainey" Cubs fan since whistler.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I'm not complaining about the Cubs team. I like their lineup and think they have some very good pitching. As this season progresses,we will see who's complaining about the Cubs. My money is on JORR.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

I meant of Cubs fans alone.

The Cubs aren't going from zero to hero over the course of one off-season. It is just hard for me to nitpick this year as they have improved in so many ways. Last night was annoying, but not totally unexpected. The Cubs were bad last year with RISP. This was Adam Wainwright. I think the Cubs should have done better than 0-13, but I'm still not very worried about the offense. Again, it was ~45° for much of the night. This team is likely a heavy extra base team. Ross' drive to center would have been off the wall, and Coghlan would have homered to right during most games at Wrigley. A lot harder for a team with this makeup to score runs in April at Wrigley.

Lester wasn't terrible considering his lack of a real spring training. The bullpen was very solid. Cubs defense was terrible. Many Cubs put together decent at-bats. Wainwright had a fairly high pitch count through the early innings.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

IMU,
That was a good review of yesterday. I think this team will end up scoring plenty of runs.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

No, Jimmy. Youre "you think you're better than me" attitude about everything that people in the public eye do, is terrible.

And the 150 year reasoning, is terrible. Things change. Improvements are made. Dont fear change.

If you want to make an argument, start with something better than "well these guys didnt do it"

Because as has been detailed in this thread, things change.

You would have said middle relief is hogwash and a 5 man rotation would never work because neither had been done before.

5 man rotation is a good idea? Why are the statistics so much better for SP in the 60's and 70's? These guys pitching today don't have the endurance of pitchers in the past. The 5 man rotation has made SP soft,not better.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

What pitcher in the 60s or 70s was better than Kershaw? I guess you could make an argument for Koufax. You might lose though.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Steve Carlton.

No.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

LaRussa also did it for the reason that it made his star player (Pujols) happy. Unortunately he somewhat negated the effectiveness of what it was supposed to accomplish by constantly hitting the slap-happy 2nd basemen in the 2 hole. Matheny is not even league average in his in game management, but one thing I do like is he hit a slugger like Beltran or Molina in the 2 hole frequently.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

Yeah,there are some fantastic pitchers today but it's usually for 6-7 innings every 5th day. Check Mickey Lolich out in 1971,than get back to me on how nobody else can compare to Kershaw.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Yea I just checked, he's not. I thought he had a longer run than just 1972 being silly good.

Bob Gibson's run from '66 to '72 is better than Kershaw. Juan Marichal is close, too.

Yes, the 5 man rotation is a good idea. And there are more good ideas coming that you, me and others havent thought of.

The old guys never did it this way is just a terrible reason to resist anything

Pedro's 1998-2003 is pretty stellar as well... especially given the run environment

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

Marichal was better than Gibson, but neither one of them was ever as good as Kershaw has been since 2009. Yeah, they threw a lot more innings. I guess that's an argument in their favor. But they also threw off a towering mound which allowed them to command a curveball in a way that is impossible for most of today's pitchers.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Towering mound was lowered in 1969. Gibson and others still dominated.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

JORR,
Since your real big on victories over ERA,that means Kershaw couldn't hold Ferguson Jenkins jock.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

That guy was unreal! Pitching in that Boston cigar box,too.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

jimmy, it's winning percentage that is important. In the prime of their careers Gibson and Jenkinson had low ERAs but they also averaged about 11 and 14 losses per season respectively. Now, just from knowing those facts alone, we know that as few runs as these guys were allowing, there were a whole bunch of pitchers out there- most of whom would be considered no where close to as good as either of the guys in question- who were also very capable of allowing very few runs in a baseball game.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Not the way Kershaw is dominating right now. And I believe the mound was still higher throughout the seventies than it currently is.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Not the 60's or 70's, but yes.

The last change to the pitchers mound was 1969. 10 inches.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Yes, but there's something very strange about the steroid era. In spite of all that offense, you also had a large group of dominating Hall of Fame pitchers- Johnson, Maddux, Pedro, Clemens, etc.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

When Kershaw starts 40 games and pitches 300 innings we can begin the comparisons.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Steroids/conditioning can't improve eye-hand coordination or contact skills. These pitchers were talking about just had filthy stuff

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

That's the official rule. But there has historically been a lot of manipulation of mound heights. In the 60s the Dodgers were well known for raising the mound well beyond the rule. Also, a trick that has been used by certain teams is to put huge mounds in the visitor's bullpen so when they walk out to the field, suddenly it's as if they are throwing out of a hole.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Pitchers also used steroids.

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But they also played before the baseball community, inexplicably, decided strikeouts were OK. The game is playing right into the hands of guys like Clayton Kershaw and Chris Sale and they're massacring opponents because of it. I'm still taking Gibson over Kershaw because Kershaw cant get any Cardinal batters out in the playoffs.

The last change to the pitchers mound was in 1969. 10 inches.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014