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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:51 am 
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Ok, we know he can't hit and has never had a base hit in the Majors. But I was SHOCKED to see last night that he has not made a pickoff throw in over a year (only 8 in 2012, 5 in 2013, and ZERO in 2014). Clearly he has had success despite this...or could it be intentional/strategic? And the reluctance to throw to bases is apparently not limited to pickoff attempts. He had Heyward out easily at 3B on a comebacker where he just went to first.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:56 am 
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He thinks he's entitled to not do it. I brought this up when (or shortly before) the Cubs signed him and was laughed out of the thread.

Teams dont steal like they used to because they dont want to create outs on the basepaths, regardless of who is pitching. But, as we saw, it can combine with poor OF play (Hi, Jorge Soler) to let runners from 1st easily make it to 3rd or even score on base hits. If a pitcher refuses to even feign interest in holding a runner to a reasonable lead, runners are going to take unreasonable leads. That leaves it to the catcher to guard and limit runners, Ross was doing it poorly last night, which carries a much higher chance of errors leading to runs.

He got away with it in the AL because AL teams aren't as inclined the press the issue on these mistakes as its a much more station-to-station type of baseball, but the NL will kill him. The Royals played like an NL team against him and he got creamed in last year's WC game.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:57 am 
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Jon Lester Never Throws Over, But
by Jeff Sullivan - September 30, 2014

It’s playoff time, which means every game matters, which means every little detail matters, which means every little detail gets analyzed. We all have to give you information, and you all have to talk about the information, and then together we’ll all pretend like not everything is almost literally a coin flip. We’re here to talk about edges and x-factors, and left unsaid is that almost every team is pretty much even and the winner will have been both good and fortunate.

In a short while the Royals will host the A’s in the AL’s wild-card playoff, and the detail du jour: an incredible Jon Lester stat. I don’t know who had it first, but I saw it first here, in the comments, left by Jon Roegele. All of this season, Jon Lester didn’t attempt a pickoff. Last year, he attempted seven, and the year before that, he attempted five. The year before that, he attempted 70. The Royals are an extremely aggressive team on the bases, so this seems like the kind of thing that might be taken advantage of.

It’s almost inconceivable, almost impossible to explain. You figure a guy won’t really vary his pickoff frequency. Between 2009 – 2011, the leader in pickoff attempts was Justin Verlander. Between 2012 – 2014, the leader in pickoff attempts was Justin Verlander. That first set of three years, Lester attempted 247 pickoffs. The last three years, he’s attempted a dozen pickoffs, tying him with Donnie Veal, Phillippe Aumont, Michael Tonkin, and Charlie Leesman. Lester didn’t change teams until this past summer. Nothing dramatic should’ve changed, but something dramatic did change, or at least, something forgettable changed dramatically. From the standpoint of someone who loves playing with numbers, I’m fascinated by this sudden and whopping change in Lester’s approach.

He’s not the only guy who’s dramatically cut his pickoffs. Between those sets of three years, Lester’s pickoff total dropped by 235. Mark Buehrle‘s dropped by 244. Buehrle might have better control of the running game than anyone, and here’s a comparative table:

Year Lester Buehrle
2009 79 124
2010 98 192
2011 70 171
2012 5 105
2013 7 90
2014 0 48
People know better than to try against Buehrle, and we all know Buehrle doesn’t like wasting time. This has actually helped him work even faster. But Lester’s dropoff feels a lot more meaningful, because he’s dropped down to zero. Not one throw over, in a full year with a full slate of starts and innings.

It feels like something of a vulnerability. The last three years, attempted base-stealers have been successful against Lester 77% of the time, against an average of about 73%. And Lester’s left-handed, so it seems like he’s losing a lot of his lefty advantage, if not actually all of it. Here’s the way Buster Olney talks about Lester, pickoffs, and the running game:

But a different narrative has developed recently among some evaluators: that Lester is not comfortable throwing to first base. He allowed five stolen bases over his final three starts of the season, including four to the Mariners on Sept. 14. The Royals do not hit homers and they don’t draw walks, but they led the majors in stolen bases — by a wide margin — and figure to be aggressive on the basepaths tonight.

“Not comfortable throwing to first base.” Lester doesn’t have a history of racking up a ton of throwing errors, but he does have a history of articles talking about him working on his move. From March 2012:

This week, Lester talked about the work he has been doing on his pickoff move, and why it matters.
[…]
“Those kind of got away from me. I’m trying to get back to doing one thing. That’s the hardest part, just knowing I’ve got to throw the ball over to first and doing the same stuff to do it. It’s something that’s important, something you have to do, something you have to feel comfortable doing.”

That same spring training:


Just a couple weeks ago:

Starter Jon Lester spent part of the early afternoon on the mound at the Coliseum, working on his pickoff move. He threw shutout ball for six innings Sunday, but the Mariners stole four times against him and catcher Derek Norris. Before that, he hadn’t allowed a steal since his trade from the Red Sox. “He’s been so quick over the years, he really hasn’t had to throw over there,” manager Bob Melvin said. “So he came out early to work on that with some guys getting extended leads.”

Lester knows the pickoff isn’t a strength. He knows it’s important to control the running game, and he does know about changing speeds and looks. Something important to understand, though: pickoffs, usually, aren’t about picking runners off. It’s more about keeping runners close. Lester this season didn’t attempt even one single pickoff, but that doesn’t mean that he can’t, whenever he wants. The name of the game, mostly, is deterrence, and the last three years, runners have tried to steal against Lester in 5.5% of opportunities. The three years before that, when Lester picked off quite often, runners tried to steal in 9.1% of opportunities. So even though Lester’s not throwing over anymore, he’s still keeping runners closer, and the average is a steal attempt in about 5.9% of opportunities. Lester hasn’t been easily exploited. Some games maybe he’s been easier to read, but on the whole, he hasn’t needed to throw pickoffs, because the runners aren’t going crazy.

Being a lefty, Lester’s looking right at first base when he comes set and holds the ball in his glove:

LesterSet

That’s from this year, and while Lester didn’t throw over, and never threw over, nothing was stopping him except himself. If the runner had taken a massive lead, Lester could’ve thrown over quite easily. It’s not about the pickoff as much as it’s about the threat of a pickoff, and that’s where Lester gets to make up for the fact that maybe his pickoff move isn’t so great. Also, he’s not slow to the plate. So stealing requires a particularly good jump.

Lester, still, is more vulnerable than a normal southpaw. He allows more steals than a normal southpaw, and if I’m the Royals, I’m instructing my quick runners to take aggressive leads, just to see. See how far you can push it. See if you can draw a throw, or see if Lester is truly hesitant. The Royals like to run, and they should give it due consideration, given the opportunities. But Lester is not a guy who’s easy to steal a base against. He’s a guy who hasn’t thrown a ball over. From a statistical standpoint, that’s amazing, but from an in-game standpoint, that means surprisingly little. And given that the Royals have a weak lineup, the A’s might be unusually willing to call for a pitch-out, and then a well-timed one of those can kill an attempt where it stands.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:30 pm 
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Good subject thread that I was going to start. All I can say is that is shocking coming from a guy making that kind of cash. I wonder if this issue was even brought up in Spring Training. A Paul Sullivan (or somebody) should ask Maddon about this.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:22 pm 
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I just wish Bernsie was here to tell us it does not matter. Boers and Drinky at least admitted he had not seen this written or talked about anywhere.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:25 pm 
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I'd say that he has never had a professional hit would be a bigger issue.

Seems strange for him to want to go to a National League team unless he thinks he can become decent for a pitcher.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:28 pm 
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What's he got... 30 something plate appearances? I'm willing to allow that he's going to get something sometime.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:28 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'd say that he has never had a professional hit would be a bigger issue.

Seems strange for him to want to go to a National League team unless he thinks he can become decent for a pitcher.

He has batted four times a year over the past nine years.
Start panicking!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:31 pm 
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if it is a mental problem with throwing to first he should take a page from the movies and do what rube baker did to get over his throwing issues


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:32 pm 
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Good Dolphin the SOX fan hasn't posted in this thread yet so it must not hold too much merit.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:33 pm 
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SteveSarley wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'd say that he has never had a professional hit would be a bigger issue.

Seems strange for him to want to go to a National League team unless he thinks he can become decent for a pitcher.

He has batted four times a year over the past nine years.
Start panicking!!!
Ok. Nothing to even be concerned about. Got it.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:38 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
SteveSarley wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'd say that he has never had a professional hit would be a bigger issue.

Seems strange for him to want to go to a National League team unless he thinks he can become decent for a pitcher.

He has batted four times a year over the past nine years.
Start panicking!!!
Ok. Nothing to even be concerned about. Got it.


just move him up to 8th


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:14 am 
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From the Trib's Mark Gonzales:

Well before the Cubs signed Jon Lester to a record-setting six-year, $155 million contract, they were aware that he hadn't attempted a pickoff throw to first base since 2013.

Manager Joe Maddon said the issue was addressed in spring training and that they would make sure it doesn't become a lingering issue.Sunday night, the Cardinals stole three bases off Lester.

Not many NL teams possess an offense as pesky as the Cardinals, but their ability to maximize large leads off first base against Lester serves as a learning tool as teams will try to exploit Lester's reluctance to throw to first base.

There are ways for Lester to address opponents taking large leads against him, such as stepping off the mound or holding the ball to disrupt the timing of baserunners.

The biggest factor could be simply the fact that Lester figures to get sharper and stronger after enduring a "dead arm" three weeks ago.


Lester isn't the first pitcher to have difficulty holding runners. The White Sox, in fact, once instructed Freddy Garcia and Jose Contreras to simply concentrate on the batter and weren't overly concerned if a baserunner stole second.

This put tremendous pressure on their catchers, but David Ross' strong association with Lester dating to their days with the Red Sox should alleviate some of the stress.

There's plenty of time for the Cubs to correct the mistakes that surfaced in Sunday night's 3-0 loss to the Cardinals.

The Cubs' talent level soared from last season with the additions of Lester, Dexter Fowler, Miguel Montero and David Ross while Javier Baez polishes his hitting skills at Triple-A Iowa.

But they still have a ways to go to catch the defending National League Central champion Cardinals despite the personnel upgrades and the ascent of youngsters such as right fielder Jorge Soler and pitcher Kyle Hendricks,



The biggest test for the Cubs — while awaiting the arrival of mega talent Kris Bryant — is how much they can improve on an individual basis so they won't always have to rely on Anthony Rizzo, Starlin Castro and Lester.

There's also a learning curve for Soler, who experienced difficulty fielding singles that allowed the Cardinals to take an extra base Sunday night. Soler missed a large portion of the 2014 season because of leg injuries that appear to have been remedied, and he possesses the strongest arm of the Cubs outfielders.

But Soler has played only 15 games at Wrigley, so his acclimation to the park will take time.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:03 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'd say that he has never had a professional hit would be a bigger issue.

Seems strange for him to want to go to a National League team unless he thinks he can become decent for a pitcher.

Its not as rare as you think. There are a ton of pitchers who are absolutely horrible at the plate. But he should be able to learn to bunt.


The pickoff thing is going to have to be fixed.


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