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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Harrison
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:59 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
I will drop it, but I am not of the same opinion.
Are you saying a white guy calling a black guy that name should be treated the exact same way as a black guy calling anyone else that?

I think it is bad either way, that is my feeling.
Aren't you saying there shouldn't be a double standard?

I am saying exactly what I typed.

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Harrison
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:00 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
I will drop it, but I am not of the same opinion.
Are you saying a white guy calling a black guy that name should be treated the exact same way as a black guy calling anyone else that?


Do you not know what Andrew meant?


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Harrison
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:01 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
I am saying exactly what I typed.
Well, you typed that there shouldn't be a double standard, which means you think they should be treated the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Harrison
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:12 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
And if the shoe was on the other foot and Kaminsky would have said it, the whole world would have been after his ass.



Harrison has been criticized for making the statement. I haven't seen anyone excuse what he said. He obviously felt that what he said was wrong. He apologized for it. He probably only apologized because he was caught on audio. He also called Kaminsky. There has been comdemnation for his statement. The word does not mean the same thing for Kaminski as it means for African Americans. He was using the word in the way that an African American would Address another African American. In this way it really isn't racial.
This is not meant to excuse his behavior nor the comments but in this instance I'm wondering what the punishment of Harrison should be? Should he be expelled immediately from Kentucky? Is that is what's meant by the whole world being after his ass?

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Harrison
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:14 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
And if the shoe was on the other foot and Kaminsky would have said it, the whole world would have been after his ass.
Rightfully so.

But this is ok?

I'm with you that we'd all be better off if no one used it, but holy shit you are being gleefully and willfully obtuse.

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Harrison
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:31 pm 
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The fact is there is no equivalent word that a black man might call a white man.

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Harrison
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:16 pm 
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many white people still don't get this. my guess is they may never. it should be rather obvious why...but it seems to leave so many people questioning.


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Harrison
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:20 pm 
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As a white guy I get the idea of not saying, thinking about that word. Honestly, insert whatever reasoning you want I fail to understand in any way why black people care to use it or keep it alive in any form.

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Harrison
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:25 pm 
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W_Z wrote:
many white people still don't get this. my guess is they may never. it should be rather obvious why...but it seems to leave so many people questioning.

Nope...had to hear from multiple people today that the world would be burning right now if the shoe was on the other foot...

...I work with some great people, really.


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Harrison
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:56 pm 
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lipidquadcab wrote:
W_Z wrote:
many white people still don't get this. my guess is they may never. it should be rather obvious why...but it seems to leave so many people questioning.

Nope...had to hear from multiple people today that the world would be burning right now if the shoe was on the other foot...

...I work with some great people, really.

Im pretty sure we have several examples of the shoe being on the other foot and it being a MUCH bigger deal than this is.

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Harrison
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:00 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
lipidquadcab wrote:
W_Z wrote:
many white people still don't get this. my guess is they may never. it should be rather obvious why...but it seems to leave so many people questioning.

Nope...had to hear from multiple people today that the world would be burning right now if the shoe was on the other foot...

...I work with some great people, really.

Im pretty sure we have several examples of the shoe being on the other foot and it being a MUCH bigger deal than this is.

Yeah, I wasn't saying it wouldn't be...just can't believe anyone doesn't understand why it is a much bigger deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Harrison
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:07 pm 
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Reilly Cooper used the word and their was a flap about it. He still has a job as he should. Harrison made a mistake and he apologized for it. It seems as if some want the kid tarred and feathered.

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Harrison
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:19 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Reilly Cooper used the word and their was a flap about it. He still has a job as he should. Harrison made a mistake and he apologized for it. It seems as if some want the kid tarred and feathered.


Yeah, it's pretty stupid.

As we talked about earlier, I completely understand those who feel the word should be wiped from the language. Many of the people who taught me as a young man definitely fit into that category. These are people who were forged in the civil rights movement.

But the experience of young men like Andrew Harrison and Reilly Cooper is undoubtedly far different than mine. I had people like Benjamin Hooks and Lillian Tynes as mentors. They had a big influence on a young white kid. But we're a long way from 1970s Evanston.

Take someone like Reilly Cooper. He doesn't work in a lily white office in Schaumburg where Nas is gonna get side-eyed for wearing his funky urban belt on casual Friday. In that environment nobody would dare utter "the n word" out loud. That doesn't make it a workplace free from racism. No, Cooper as an elite athlete has grown up in and works in an environment dominated by blacks and by the culture of the modern young black man. These are his co-workers, colleagues, and friends. It would be weird if he didn't speak the way they do. And it's probably a little unfair to demand that he shouldn't simply because of the color of his skin.

Context and time do matter. To these young guys, it seems as if "the n word" has little to no relationship to skin color, slavery, history, etc. Reilly Cooper used the word at a hillbilly concert. There probably wasn't a black person within a square mile. He clearly wasn't using it as an epithet for a black man. Circling back to the older guys, especially older black guys, who think he shouldn't be so comfortable in using the word, again, I understand. But in a way, I see the adoption of black culture (or what they believe to be black culture- right or wrong) by young white guys as real progress, though perhaps not exactly the kind of progress Dr. Hooks or Ms. Tynes had in mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Harrison
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:58 am 
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W_Z wrote:
many white people still don't get this. my guess is they may never. it should be rather obvious why...but it seems to leave so many people questioning.

Outside of the obvious reasons, there is the fact that white people still use it viciously. It's not like that doesnt exist.


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Harrison
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:29 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Reilly Cooper used the word and their was a flap about it. He still has a job as he should. Harrison made a mistake and he apologized for it. It seems as if some want the kid tarred and feathered.


Yeah, it's pretty stupid.

As we talked about earlier, I completely understand those who feel the word should be wiped from the language. Many of the people who taught me as a young man definitely fit into that category. These are people who were forged in the civil rights movement.

But the experience of young men like Andrew Harrison and Reilly Cooper is undoubtedly far different than mine. I had people like Benjamin Hooks and Lillian Tynes as mentors. They had a big influence on a young white kid. But we're a long way from 1970s Evanston.

Take someone like Reilly Cooper. He doesn't work in a lily white office in Schaumburg where Nas is gonna get side-eyed for wearing his funky urban belt on casual Friday. In that environment nobody would dare utter "the n word" out loud. That doesn't make it a workplace free from racism. No, Cooper as an elite athlete has grown up in and works in an environment dominated by blacks and by the culture of the modern young black man. These are his co-workers, colleagues, and friends. It would be weird if he didn't speak the way they do. And it's probably a little unfair to demand that he shouldn't simply because of the color of his skin.

Context and time do matter. To these young guys, it seems as if "the n word" has little to no relationship to skin color, slavery, history, etc. Reilly Cooper used the word at a hillbilly concert. There probably wasn't a black person within a square mile. He clearly wasn't using it as an epithet for a black man. Circling back to the older guys, especially older black guys, who think he shouldn't be so comfortable in using the word, again, I understand. But in a way, I see the adoption of black culture (or what they believe to be black culture- right or wrong) by young white guys as real progress, though perhaps not exactly the kind of progress Dr. Hooks or Ms. Tynes had in mind.



That is what I was referring to when I suggested that in a strange way we have become desensitized to its use. The use of that word doesn't offend me as much as some because I have heard it my entire life and 99% of the time I've heard it used by African Americans. That doesn't mean that I have a right to tell other African Americans that they shouldn't be offended by the use of the word. Conversely I don't think they have a right to tell other African Americans that they should be offended by the use of the word.
I actually hear a number of things on this board that would offend more than the use if this word yet I would never suggest that the person expressing said views should be silenced. Elmhurst Steve takes a lot of heat and rightfully so but he is not the only one. I would never suggest any of the other people should be silenced either. Prejudice is going to exist whether we say it does or not. We can pretend that ignoring it will eliminate it but all that does is heighten the level of ignorance.

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Harrison
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:35 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Reilly Cooper used the word and their was a flap about it. He still has a job as he should. Harrison made a mistake and he apologized for it. It seems as if some want the kid tarred and feathered.


Yeah, it's pretty stupid.

As we talked about earlier, I completely understand those who feel the word should be wiped from the language. Many of the people who taught me as a young man definitely fit into that category. These are people who were forged in the civil rights movement.

But the experience of young men like Andrew Harrison and Reilly Cooper is undoubtedly far different than mine. I had people like Benjamin Hooks and Lillian Tynes as mentors. They had a big influence on a young white kid. But we're a long way from 1970s Evanston.

Take someone like Reilly Cooper. He doesn't work in a lily white office in Schaumburg where Nas is gonna get side-eyed for wearing his funky urban belt on casual Friday. In that environment nobody would dare utter "the n word" out loud. That doesn't make it a workplace free from racism. No, Cooper as an elite athlete has grown up in and works in an environment dominated by blacks and by the culture of the modern young black man. These are his co-workers, colleagues, and friends. It would be weird if he didn't speak the way they do. And it's probably a little unfair to demand that he shouldn't simply because of the color of his skin.

Context and time do matter. To these young guys, it seems as if "the n word" has little to no relationship to skin color, slavery, history, etc. Reilly Cooper used the word at a hillbilly concert. There probably wasn't a black person within a square mile. He clearly wasn't using it as an epithet for a black man. Circling back to the older guys, especially older black guys, who think he shouldn't be so comfortable in using the word, again, I understand. But in a way, I see the adoption of black culture (or what they believe to be black culture- right or wrong) by young white guys as real progress, though perhaps not exactly the kind of progress Dr. Hooks or Ms. Tynes had in mind.




I actually hear a number of things on this board that would offend more than the use if this word yet I would never suggest that the person expressing said views should be silenced. Elmhurst Steve takes a lot of heat and rightfully so but he is not the only one. I would never suggest any of the other people should be silenced either. Prejudice is going to exist whether we say it does or not. We can pretend that ignoring it will eliminate it but all that does is heighten the level of ignorance.
Beats leaving the board in a hissy fit doesn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Harrison
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:45 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Reilly Cooper used the word and their was a flap about it. He still has a job as he should. Harrison made a mistake and he apologized for it. It seems as if some want the kid tarred and feathered.


Yeah, it's pretty stupid.

As we talked about earlier, I completely understand those who feel the word should be wiped from the language. Many of the people who taught me as a young man definitely fit into that category. These are people who were forged in the civil rights movement.

But the experience of young men like Andrew Harrison and Reilly Cooper is undoubtedly far different than mine. I had people like Benjamin Hooks and Lillian Tynes as mentors. They had a big influence on a young white kid. But we're a long way from 1970s Evanston.

Take someone like Reilly Cooper. He doesn't work in a lily white office in Schaumburg where Nas is gonna get side-eyed for wearing his funky urban belt on casual Friday. In that environment nobody would dare utter "the n word" out loud. That doesn't make it a workplace free from racism. No, Cooper as an elite athlete has grown up in and works in an environment dominated by blacks and by the culture of the modern young black man. These are his co-workers, colleagues, and friends. It would be weird if he didn't speak the way they do. And it's probably a little unfair to demand that he shouldn't simply because of the color of his skin.

Context and time do matter. To these young guys, it seems as if "the n word" has little to no relationship to skin color, slavery, history, etc. Reilly Cooper used the word at a hillbilly concert. There probably wasn't a black person within a square mile. He clearly wasn't using it as an epithet for a black man. Circling back to the older guys, especially older black guys, who think he shouldn't be so comfortable in using the word, again, I understand. But in a way, I see the adoption of black culture (or what they believe to be black culture- right or wrong) by young white guys as real progress, though perhaps not exactly the kind of progress Dr. Hooks or Ms. Tynes had in mind.




I actually hear a number of things on this board that would offend more than the use if this word yet I would never suggest that the person expressing said views should be silenced. Elmhurst Steve takes a lot of heat and rightfully so but he is not the only one. I would never suggest any of the other people should be silenced either. Prejudice is going to exist whether we say it does or not. We can pretend that ignoring it will eliminate it but all that does is heighten the level of ignorance.
Beats leaving the board in a hissy fit doesn't it?


I think I know what you're referencing. Everyone has their reasons. I understand his beef in that he believed that others were allowed to state things and he wasnt. It was not simply about what they were saying it was his belief that they were allowed to say things and he wasnt.

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