The average NBA player isn't better though.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

There is a Wisconsin contingent that supports him.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Why would the average golfer get better over the past 10 years but the average NBA player not get better over 30 years?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It's not evolution, Rick.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

So how did PGA tour golfers get better?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't know. If I had to hazard a guess I might say that the boom created by Tiger Woods increased the size of the pool of potential professionals.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I have a couple of decent guesses, #1 being equipment and #2 is the AJGA Tour and othes like it, these kids have played against each other since they were youngsters and when they get to the tour even at 20 years old they feel like and know they have the game to play. Sure they might blow a late lead, but they learn from it really fast.

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Just like Bird and Magic!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure the average golfer is better now.

However, JORR thinks the average NBA player was better in the 80s. It just wouldn't make sense and I prefer the Jordan years NBA anyways.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Equipment is part of it. Some of the guys on tour are true athletes and are extremely fit. I don't think Arnie and Jack did much strength training. I think that
when Tiger Woods came along he raised the bar. These young guys that are emerging grew up idolizing Tiger and took their games to a different level. I have
no doubts that the PGA Tour is as strong talent wise as it has ever been. The winning scores of these tournaments already this year have been impressive.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

I don't think Bird and Magic caused more people to play basketball. They caused more people to become fans of basketball on TV.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I would say I think the depth is better, but I also don't watch a ton of NBA basketball.

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A lot of the best rounds in various majors occurred back in the 1970's, early 1980's. And most happened before 2001. 2001 until Rory and now Spieth is a bit of down period for record setting rounds in majors.

Difference between NBA vs PGA is PGA it's just the golfer vs the course. So if Johnny Miller posted a 63 in 1973 in the US Open...you have to adjust for courses, conditions, rough cuts etc...but it's just as valid as a 63 posted in the same circumstances on the same course in a major today.

Sure, the average PGA tour card holder today is better than the average PGA tour card holder back then. However, the top players at their peak of most any era could've easily won tournaments against any of the top players who have followed--no defense on a golf course. Jack at his peak vs Tiger at his peak in a US Open? Pick em.

Golf is actually facing a major crisis in terms of participation.

I guess it is all downhill from here.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Equipment is responsible for lowering scores. Not making better golfers. That's kind of similar to the ERA argument. Horses go faster because of modified sulkies and the elimination of hubrails. That doesn't make them better horses.

You have to watch the sport and know what you're watching. For me, Chamberlain, Russell, and Alcindor are better than Howard and Bosh. I could be wrong. Palmer, Nicklaus, Player, etc. are a stronger group than anything Woods played against in his prime, as are Spieth, Watson, McIlroy, etc. I could be wrong about that too. But I can make good arguments to support my positions.

It's interesting with horses. There is a fresh crop every year. They are specifically bred to improve. But they don't necessarily. I'd argue that the strongest group of standardbred pacers that every hit the racetrack are the foals of 1982. I could be wrong about that too, but I'll argue with you about it if you want.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

We'll know in 10-15 years.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Gary Player was probably the first golfer that really got into fitness.

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I think the NBA was better then because your better teams were deeper. A guy like Mario Chalmers or Udonis would not have started on NBA champions of yrs. gone by. That's the difference. The first guard off the bench would be better than Chalmers hence Michael Cooper or Vinny Johnson. The top players argument may be a wash or very little difference but there is no doubting the depth argument.

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Agree. I think the mid-70's into the 80's era with Jack Nicklaus, Gary Player, Tom Watson, Lee Trevino, and Johnny Miller is probably the strongest group of top golfers all at or near their best at one time....with Nicklaus and Watson mostly trading off majors.

Then you have the late 80's early 90's...pre-Tiger. Then late 90's into the early 2000's. And today's group is the best since that late 90's early 2000's.

Thing about golf equipment, no one has figured out a putter that can keep a golfer from getting the yips and missing puts. It's Tiger's short game that has abandoned him since 2009.

The name of the game in golf and how players are judged is by lower scores. By that fact, the equipment is directly responsible for a better player. The game has been played in one
fashion or another for hundreds of years. In the modern era of golf ( lets say post 1960 ), there is virtually no difference between the players then and now. They can all do the same
thing with the ball and know how to play the game. Today's player has used technology and science to his advantage in the gym, on the course with better clubs and balls and in their
practice routine being able to slice and dice statistics and pore over tape. To your point, there is really nothing different about the actual homo sapien hitting the ball other than they
are likely more fit than many PGA Tour players 30 years ago.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

But that doesn't work comparing across eras. Like bowling, there are guys who average 210 today and they certainly aren't better than guys who averaged 180 in 1970.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

what's a modern driver compared to a wooden one? 50 yards?

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How does Tiger have so much personality on the golf course, other than his fist pump and faking injuries when he's not playing well?

The reason why people liked Tiger when he first appeared is because he was a golf prodigy who dominated the game at an early age. Other than being white, I don't see how Spieth is really any different. It's better for his game that he doesn't have a flamboyant personality or isn't some Johnny Manziel. The key to hitting a golf ball well is not to have to think at all, where it comes automatically and effortlessly. Being ego driven would only get in the way of developing a good swing.

The real reason Dan dislikes Spieth has to be his religion, because Dan hates Christians and Christianity.

i think that's mostly due to expansion....if you retracted ~5 teams you'd have pretty much the same thing

It seems like I'm the only guy who remembers what dominant Tiger was like on the course.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Its hard for personality to transcend during post game "gangbang" interviews where questioners try to pose the same questions differently to get their taped response. After the sixth or seventh time answering essentially the same question the answers become monotone.

Tiger's legacy started as a multiple amateur champion who gave pros a serius run for their money as a teenager.

As for the evolution of athletes and the game, I look to track where Jesse Owens 1936 times are being matched by today's high school kids. Tennis and golf are two equipment dependent sports, while the evolution of basketball is in the talent. Wilt and Kareem didn't have other seven footers who would battle them on the boards, take the ball downcourt, and then pull up and splash a three pointer. Yes, the game has changed as defense has been diluted but the offensive skill of bigger men has also improved.

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That and was there a cap in place in back then?

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Not a sport

Again, bowling is a numbers game. Why can't these be compared? Have the bowling alleys and bowling equipment really come along that far to help players score? You still gotta
toss the rock down the alley. Maybe Chus or Boyd could enlighten us.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

bowling balls have all sorts of weights and shit inside to make them hook.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest