Cub Bullpen

America · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:02 am

The Sox came back in a ton of games last year and had a bullpen of guys who couldn't throw the ball for a strike.

Darkside · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:02 am

America wrote:

Darkside wrote:

Albatross? Jesus the guy started two games. Let's chill.

I've watched both and he's looked hopeless in both. He's hurt, gotten bad, or doesn't care. You dont see any of the other games' best pitchers giving up like 7 doubles in a game against the Reds and being incapable of fielding their position.

Let's reassess in June.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying it's 2 games.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

America wrote:

Darkside wrote:

Albatross? Jesus the guy started two games. Let's chill.

I've watched both and he's looked hopeless in both. He's hurt, gotten bad, or doesn't care. You dont see any of the other games' best pitchers giving up like 7 doubles in a game against the Reds and being incapable of fielding their position.

Lester is very streaky (like Mark Buehrle) he doenst have the command yet. He's done this a few times where he gets hammered for a few starts then he goes on a streak of 7 or 8 great starts.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

America wrote:

The Sox came back in a ton of games last year and had a bullpen of guys who couldn't throw the ball for a strike.

Are you saying having a good bullpen doesnt aid comebacks? Because it does, and you know that.

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82152

bullpens get exposed over time by starters who make them come in early. It's a symbiotic relationship

Kirkwood · **Posted:** Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:04 am

Kirkwood wrote:

The best part is that in Iowa there are a quite of few solid replacements once Ramirez has to go on the DL for his Sale-like "rest".

Rivero, Rosscup, Parker and Britton are just biding their time to join the Show and contribute.

Plus, you have CJ Edwards ready for the babied Ramirez role sitting at Tennessee. He proved in Arizona he can step in a dominate MLB hitters. He's just waiting to get called up in the 2nd half for the stretch run and light up the Show.

^
called it. swish. hi rivero. welcome to chicago

Matches Malone · **Posted:** Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:05 am

Kirkwood wrote:

The best part is that in Iowa there are a quite of few solid replacements once Ramirez has to go on the DL for his Sale-like "rest".

Rivero, Rosscup, Parker and Britton are just biding their time to join the Show and contribute.

Plus, you have CJ Edwards ready for the babied Ramirez role sitting at Tennessee. He proved in Arizona he can step in a dominate MLB hitters. He's just waiting to get called up in the 2nd half for the stretch run and light up the Show.

^
called it. swish. hi rivero. welcome to chicago

Sucks that Ramirez went down, but I am anxious to see what this Rivero has got.

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82152

Matches Malone wrote:

[Sucks that Ramirez went down,.

Rangers GM is sleeping like a baby these days

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

good dolphin wrote:

Matches Malone wrote:

[Sucks that Ramirez went down,.

Rangers GM is sleeping like a baby these days

That trade is and will always be a huge loss for the Rangers. Garza did absolutely nothing for them.

Ramirez performance last year is already better than what Garza did.

Then there is CJ Edwards, still Ramirez and eventually Edwards. Plus Olt is not done.

Hawg Ass · **Joined:** Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:00 pm **Posts:** 30282

rogers park bryan wrote:

good dolphin wrote:

Matches Malone wrote:

[Sucks that Ramirez went down,.

Rangers GM is sleeping like a baby these days

That trade is and will always be a huge loss for the Rangers. Garza did absolutely nothing for them.

Ramirez performance last year is already better than what Garza did.

Then there is CJ Edwards, still Ramirez and eventually Edwards. Plus Olt is not done.

Not with that starting rotation he has down there.

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82152

rogers park bryan wrote:

good dolphin wrote:

Matches Malone wrote:

[Sucks that Ramirez went down,.

Rangers GM is sleeping like a baby these days

That trade is and will always be a huge loss for the Rangers. Garza did absolutely nothing for them.

Ramirez performance last year is already better than what Garza did.

Then there is CJ Edwards, still Ramirez and eventually Edwards. Plus Olt is not done.

Ramirez' market value is Andre Rienzo.

Mike Olt's mom appreciates your defense of him.

CJ Edwards is the Yeti...mythical creature no one has ever actually seen.

You forgot Grimm...or you didn't because he's another pitcher with an arm injury.

Do you think any of these talents is making the Rangers GM lose sleep

Kirkwood · **Posted:** Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:16 am

good dolphin wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

good dolphin wrote:

Matches Malone wrote:

[Sucks that Ramirez went down,.

Rangers GM is sleeping like a baby these days

That trade is and will always be a huge loss for the Rangers. Garza did absolutely nothing for them.

Ramirez performance last year is already better than what Garza did.

Then there is CJ Edwards, still Ramirez and eventually Edwards. Plus Olt is not done.

Ramirez' market value is Andre Rienzo.

Mike Olt's mom appreciates your defense of him.

CJ Edwards is the Yeti...mythical creature no one has ever actually seen.

You forgot Grimm...or you didn't because he's another pitcher with an arm injury.

Do you think any of these talents is making the Rangers GM lose sleep

Absolutely. Especially when the relief market dictates a one-year wonder like Zach Duke can earn 3 years for $15 million. Ramirez and Grimm combined make a million bucks.

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82152

Kirkwood wrote:

[
That trade is and will always be a huge loss for the Rangers. Garza did absolutely nothing for them.

Ramirez performance last year is already better than what Garza did.

Then there is CJ Edwards, still Ramirez and eventually Edwards. Plus Olt is not done.

Ramirez' market value is Andre Rienzo.

Mike Olt's mom appreciates your defense of him.

CJ Edwards is the Yeti...mythical creature no one has ever actually seen.

You forgot Grimm...or you didn't because he's another pitcher with an arm injury.

Do you think any of these talents is making the Rangers GM lose sleep[/quote]
Absolutely. Especially when the relief market dictates a one-year wonder like Zach Duke can earn 3 years for $15 million. Ramirez and Grimm combined make a million bucks.[/quote]

I used Andre Rienzo as market value for a reason

http://www.southsidesox.com/2014/12/11/7377155/white-sox-trade-andre-rienzo-to-the-marlins-for-lhp-dan-jennings

as remarkable as you may find Ramirez, that is where baseball values him

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

good dolphin wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

good dolphin wrote:

Matches Malone wrote:

[Sucks that Ramirez went down,.

Rangers GM is sleeping like a baby these days

That trade is and will always be a huge loss for the Rangers. Garza did absolutely nothing for them.

Ramirez performance last year is already better than what Garza did.

Then there is CJ Edwards, still Ramirez and eventually Edwards. Plus Olt is not done.

Ramirez' market value is Andre Rienzo.

Mike Olt's mom appreciates your defense of him.

CJ Edwards is the Yeti...mythical creature no one has ever actually seen.

You forgot Grimm...or you didn't because he's another pitcher with an arm injury.

Do you think any of these talents is making the Rangers GM lose sleep

I know you want desperately to be right about that trade but you never will. Its over. The GM in question even admitted it.

Im sure he appreciates you sticking up for him but he's probably a little embarrassed at this point.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Anyway, Schlitter is gonna have to step up.

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82152

rogers park bryan wrote:

[I know you want desperately to be right about that trade but you never will. Its over. The GM in question even admitted it.

Im sure he appreciates you sticking up for him but he's probably a little embarrassed at this point.

If the GM was sufficiently dumb to give up waves and waves of talent for a rental, why would I rely on his opinion as valid?

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

good dolphin wrote:

rogers park bryan wrote:

[I know you want desperately to be right about that trade but you never will. Its over. The GM in question even admitted it.

Im sure he appreciates you sticking up for him but he's probably a little embarrassed at this point.

If the GM was sufficiently dumb to give up waves and waves of talent for a rental, why would I rely on his opinion as valid?

I gave up trying to figure out your depraved thought processes years ago.

I will be Mike Olt's last fan, though. I cant give up on a guy with that much power.

SteveSarley · **Posted:** Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:36 am

good dolphin wrote:

Kirkwood wrote:

That trade is and will always be a huge loss for the Rangers. Garza did absolutely nothing for them.

Ramirez performance last year is already better than what Garza did.

Then there is CJ Edwards, still Ramirez and eventually Edwards. Plus Olt is not done.

Ramirez' market value is Andre Rienzo.

Mike Olt's mom appreciates your defense of him.

CJ Edwards is the Yeti...mythical creature no one has ever actually seen.

You forgot Grimm...or you didn't because he's another pitcher with an arm injury.

Do you think any of these talents is making the Rangers GM lose sleep
Absolutely. Especially when the relief market dictates a one-year wonder like Zach Duke can earn 3 years for $15 million. Ramirez and Grimm combined make a million bucks.

I used Andre Rienzo as market value for a reason

http://www.southsidesox.com/2014/12/11/7377155/white-sox-trade-andre-rienzo-to-the-marlins-for-lhp-dan-jennings

as remarkable as you may find Ramirez, that is where baseball values him

No, you are wrong. That is not "where baseball values him," it is where you value him.
That is a huge difference.

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82152

SteveSarley wrote:

[
No, you are wrong. That is not "where baseball values him," it is where [b]you[/b] value him.
That is a huge difference.

I provided you with a recent comparable sale.

If you have superior evidence of market value, have at it.

Kirkwood · **Posted:** Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:50 am

As did I.

3 years $15 million

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82152

Kirkwood wrote:

As did I.

3 years $15 million

not comparable due to free agency

Kirkwood · **Posted:** Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:55 am

Hence making Ramirez even more valuable given his cost controlled salary. Or Grimm's controlled salary. Or Edwards $500K salary when he's winning the Cy Young.

Hence making the Rangers trade look worse.

Thanks.

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82152

Kirkwood wrote:

Hence making Ramirez even more valuable given his cost controlled salary.

Hence making the Rangers trade look worse.

Thanks.

No need to speculate on that. Jennings is similarly cost controlled. He had similar production last year. He is similarly aged. The differences in their production are evened out by Ramirez injury issues.

Kirkwood · **Posted:** Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:05 am

You keep focusing on one player. The trade was a half season of Garza for Ramirez, Grimm, Olt and Edwards.

It'd be like Sox fans only focusing on Semien's production (.289/.325/.421 btw) when Chris Bassitt, Josh Phegley and Rangel Ravelo were also sent.

Kirkwood · **Posted:** Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:09 am

There was an initial reaction the Cubs gave up little value for Rich Harden in 2008 when they sent Sean Gallagher, Matt Murton, Eric Patterson some minor league nobody named Josh Donaldson.

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82152

Kirkwood wrote:

You keep focusing on one player. The trade was a half season of Garza for Ramirez, Grimm, Olt and Edwards.

It'd be like Sox fans only focusing on Semien's production (.289/.325/.421 btw) when Chris Bassitt, Josh Phegley and Rangel Ravelo were also sent.

I addressed the entire situation at the beginning. Someone chose to question my valuation of Ramirez and you joined which is why we are here now.

Kirkwood · **Posted:** Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:16 am

come back ramirez and grimm. pls

miss u

badrogue17 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:18 am

I don't know how you can keep running Schlitter out there. I expected more from a great manager .

Kirkwood · **Posted:** Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:50 am

Coincidence that bullpen goes back to being amazing once Schlitter is removed?

No.

Bullpen is back.

Rod · **Posted:** Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:04 am

Kirkwood wrote:

Coincidence that bullpen goes back to being amazing once Schlitter is removed?

No.

Bullpen is back.

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