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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 2:53 am 
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But this isn't a happily-ever-after show. If anything happens with the Coke account, it's going to involve Peggy. The show has always been just as much about Peggy's journey as Don's (some would argue more), so it's exceedingly hard to believe that the show's second principal would tie things up in the antepenultimate episode of the show.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:35 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
But this isn't a happily-ever-after show.


Yeah, and none of the men on the show deserve a happily ever after. Pete is a fucking rapist for God's sake.

I think the key moment of last week's episode was when one of the vets at the VFW said, "You do whatever it takes to get home." I won't speculate on where home is for Draper. But I don't want him to be "happy". It would come off as phonier than hell.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:52 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
But this isn't a happily-ever-after show.


Yeah, and none of the men on the show deserve a happily ever after. Pete is a fucking rapist for God's sake.

I think the key moment of last week's episode was when one of the vets at the VFW said, "You do whatever it takes to get home." I won't speculate on where home is for Draper. But I don't want him to be "happy". It would come off as phonier than hell.


Mathew Weiner likes to zig when most people expect him to zag. Like Walter White in BB, I'm still rooting for Don.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 4:44 pm 
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Scorehead wrote:
I'm still rooting for Don.


me too. The did a great job of drawing us in, making us love and hate him. It's the Darth Vader story...I know there is good in him so I want him to succeed. Pete said something to the Learjet guy about "replacing Don" which suggests to me that Don comes back and could follow along the arc you discussed with Coke.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 7:02 pm 
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Don is done with advertising. He said so to the young con man - "I was in advertising."

I think the last episode is all Don on the road and some Sally, maybe years in the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 7:07 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Don is done with advertising. He said so to the young con man - "I was in advertising."

I think the last episode is all Don on the road and some Sally, maybe years in the future.


Well, he could go home to advertising. It's really the only thing he's ever been good at. Who knows how this thing will end though. I doubt it will be anything anyone expects. Though the Wichita State plane crash theory is interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:01 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Don is done with advertising. He said so to the young con man - "I was in advertising."

I think the last episode is all Don on the road and some Sally, maybe years in the future.


Well, he could go home to advertising. It's really the only thing he's ever been good at. Who knows how this thing will end though. I doubt it will be anything anyone expects. Though the Wichita State plane crash theory is interesting.


There were numerous historic events, both good and bad that Weiner could choose from late 1970. I really want Don to change his ways and become a good person. We have seen numerous glimpses of this recently.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:40 am 
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Tonight's the night! Can't wait.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:19 pm 
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I take it that the Sopranos-esque either-or here is whether Don came up with the campaign during meditation or Peggy and Stan wrote it. And so we shall debate.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:31 pm 
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Minooka Meatball wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
This is kind of interesting. I was a little curious as to the choice of the Buddy Holly song for the end credits. They have almost always, to my memory, used a song that was popular during the time of the episode.

Based on the TV show that was on in Don'ys room, the date was October 1, 1970. So, I thought using Buddy Holly's song from the late '50s was an odd choice.

So, even though most of this I think is stretching things, #6 is interesting to me and there has been a lot of plane references this half-season -

http://fusion.net/list/132874/the-wichita-theory-7-reasons-to-suspect-pete-campbell-will-die-in-the-mad-men-finale/


Buddy Holly died in a plane crash. There just have been way too many Airplane references throughout this show for it not to play a role in the finale episode.


Or, just another in a long line of red herrings.


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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:34 pm 
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The D.B. Cooper thing was always far-fetched.

Maybe Don and Peggy did the ad together. He said he was coming home.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:34 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I take it that the Sopranos-esque either-or here is whether Don came up with the campaign during meditation or Peggy and Stan wrote it. And so we shall debate.


While I am not shocked about the vague ending, the main thrust was not so "either/or", rather that



*SPOILER*







Dick finally came to self-awareness, self-honesty, and made peace with himself. Whether he went back or not was secondary and almost irrelevant.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:35 pm 
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Oh, I agree with you, but it certainly felt as if it was set up to start that conversation, just like whether Tony was killed. (He was!)

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:36 pm 
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He wasn't.




:P

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:38 pm 
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Thinking about it more, and the general Chase-Weiner rule that bad people never change, it just makes so much sense that Don would be sitting there doing yoga, finding himself, and then the lightbulb comes on and he's taking these beautiful ideas of peace and harmony and co-opting them to sell sugar water. He didn't learn anything after all. That's Our Draper!

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:56 pm 
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I'll ponder this episode after another viewing but I think it was a mistake to take Don away from everyone for the final 3 or 4 episodes.

Everybody interacted on the phone this episode. It was ridiculous.

The strength of the series was the interaction between characters. Don and Peggy's final scene shouldn't have been a poorly shot disjointed phone conversation.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 11:15 pm 
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Scorehead wrote:
One scene from Sundays episode has been stuck in my brain...& that is the Coca Cola machine scene when the Motel owner asks Don to repair the machine in exchange for a free night, & the camera fixates on Don staring at the machine.

Coca Cola has been a part of numerous Mad Men episodes.

Coca Cola is one of Jim Hobarts McCann Erickson accounts. For whatever it is worth, McCann Erickson was actually the real advertising agency for Coca Cola in the early 1970's.

Remember way back to season 1 when Jim Hobart of McCann-Erickson met Betty at an event with Don & he suggested she would be great in a Coca Cola photo shoot, which she did.

During last Sundays episode, when Hobart shot down Don & the Sterling Cooper teams pitch to establish a California office, Hobart whispered "Coca Cola" while nodding to Don.

Don is left sitting at the bus stop in last weeks episode during the fall of 1970...maybe Don hops on a Bus to NYC, & gets back in the advertising game & creates one of the most famous advertising campaigns ever...which happened to be created in late 1970...
"Hilltop" by Coca Cola, AKA as "Id like to teach the world to sing", or, "Its the real thing".
Don casts Betty in the ad before she passes away, & he quits drinking & womanizing & re-connects with his kids.
Don & his kids live happily ever after.


Like I said. Don creates the "Its The Real Thing" advertising campaign. Don smiles & comes up with the "Its The Real Thing" ad. But, I was disappointed in most of the final episode. I wanted more clearly defined closure.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 11:29 pm 
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Scorehead wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
One scene from Sundays episode has been stuck in my brain...& that is the Coca Cola machine scene when the Motel owner asks Don to repair the machine in exchange for a free night, & the camera fixates on Don staring at the machine.

Coca Cola has been a part of numerous Mad Men episodes.

Coca Cola is one of Jim Hobarts McCann Erickson accounts. For whatever it is worth, McCann Erickson was actually the real advertising agency for Coca Cola in the early 1970's.

Remember way back to season 1 when Jim Hobart of McCann-Erickson met Betty at an event with Don & he suggested she would be great in a Coca Cola photo shoot, which she did.

During last Sundays episode, when Hobart shot down Don & the Sterling Cooper teams pitch to establish a California office, Hobart whispered "Coca Cola" while nodding to Don.

Don is left sitting at the bus stop in last weeks episode during the fall of 1970...maybe Don hops on a Bus to NYC, & gets back in the advertising game & creates one of the most famous advertising campaigns ever...which happened to be created in late 1970...
"Hilltop" by Coca Cola, AKA as "Id like to teach the world to sing", or, "Its the real thing".
Don casts Betty in the ad before she passes away, & he quits drinking & womanizing & re-connects with his kids.
Don & his kids live happily ever after.


Like I said. Don creates the "Its The Real Thing" advertising campaign. Don smiles & comes up with the "Its The Real Thing" ad. But, I was disappointed in most of the final episode. I wanted more clearly defined closure.


:lol:

Not exactly "nailed". Golf clap for the Coke theory.

Punch in the face for the Pete theory.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:07 am 
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Minooka Meatball wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
One scene from Sundays episode has been stuck in my brain...& that is the Coca Cola machine scene when the Motel owner asks Don to repair the machine in exchange for a free night, & the camera fixates on Don staring at the machine.

Coca Cola has been a part of numerous Mad Men episodes.

Coca Cola is one of Jim Hobarts McCann Erickson accounts. For whatever it is worth, McCann Erickson was actually the real advertising agency for Coca Cola in the early 1970's.

Remember way back to season 1 when Jim Hobart of McCann-Erickson met Betty at an event with Don & he suggested she would be great in a Coca Cola photo shoot, which she did.

During last Sundays episode, when Hobart shot down Don & the Sterling Cooper teams pitch to establish a California office, Hobart whispered "Coca Cola" while nodding to Don.

Don is left sitting at the bus stop in last weeks episode during the fall of 1970...maybe Don hops on a Bus to NYC, & gets back in the advertising game & creates one of the most famous advertising campaigns ever...which happened to be created in late 1970...
"Hilltop" by Coca Cola, AKA as "Id like to teach the world to sing", or, "Its the real thing".
Don casts Betty in the ad before she passes away, & he quits drinking & womanizing & re-connects with his kids.
Don & his kids live happily ever after.


Like I said. Don creates the "Its The Real Thing" advertising campaign. Don smiles & comes up with the "Its The Real Thing" ad. But, I was disappointed in most of the final episode. I wanted more clearly defined closure.


:lol:

Not exactly "nailed". Golf clap for the Coke theory.

Punch in the face for the Pete theory.

Golf clap for the Coke Theory? WYC??? I nailed it. Don returned to McCaan Erickson and created the Coke " Its The Real Thing" AD. No one else here predicted the Coke ad

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 5:56 am 
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Scorehead wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The D.B. Cooper theory looks like a real possibility.


Didnt I tell you this last year? I sure did.


Wow, you even got your wrong predictions right.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:37 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Thinking about it more, and the general Chase-Weiner rule that bad people never change, it just makes so much sense that Don would be sitting there doing yoga, finding himself, and then the lightbulb comes on and he's taking these beautiful ideas of peace and harmony and co-opting them to sell sugar water. He didn't learn anything after all. That's Our Draper!


I think this is exactly right and it isn't even really ambiguous. Just like The Sopranos ending was very clear to those who paid attention- Tony is dead (or at least he got shot in the head). In a way, this ending was a nod to the ending of The Sopranos.

Mad Men is a cynical show with a cynical main character who is employed in the most cynical of all professions. He's the man who sold you the hula hoop, the yo-yo, and now the man who cynically used hippies (or his idea of them) to sell you Coca-Cola. That's what the little smirk was about.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:40 am 
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@McCann_WW: Thanks, Don. About time you came up with a good idea. https://t.co/0IdUE4KFoR #MadMen #MadMenFinale

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 7:32 am 
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Scorehead wrote:
Minooka Meatball wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
One scene from Sundays episode has been stuck in my brain...& that is the Coca Cola machine scene when the Motel owner asks Don to repair the machine in exchange for a free night, & the camera fixates on Don staring at the machine.

Coca Cola has been a part of numerous Mad Men episodes.

Coca Cola is one of Jim Hobarts McCann Erickson accounts. For whatever it is worth, McCann Erickson was actually the real advertising agency for Coca Cola in the early 1970's.

Remember way back to season 1 when Jim Hobart of McCann-Erickson met Betty at an event with Don & he suggested she would be great in a Coca Cola photo shoot, which she did.

During last Sundays episode, when Hobart shot down Don & the Sterling Cooper teams pitch to establish a California office, Hobart whispered "Coca Cola" while nodding to Don.

Don is left sitting at the bus stop in last weeks episode during the fall of 1970...maybe Don hops on a Bus to NYC, & gets back in the advertising game & creates one of the most famous advertising campaigns ever...which happened to be created in late 1970...
"Hilltop" by Coca Cola, AKA as "Id like to teach the world to sing", or, "Its the real thing".
Don casts Betty in the ad before she passes away, & he quits drinking & womanizing & re-connects with his kids.
Don & his kids live happily ever after.


Like I said. Don creates the "Its The Real Thing" advertising campaign. Don smiles & comes up with the "Its The Real Thing" ad. But, I was disappointed in most of the final episode. I wanted more clearly defined closure.


:lol:

Not exactly "nailed". Golf clap for the Coke theory.

Punch in the face for the Pete theory.

Golf clap for the Coke Theory? WYC??? I nailed it. Don returned to McCaan Erickson and created the Coke " Its The Real Thing" AD. No one else here predicted the Coke ad


Hey, props!

Any blind person playing darts can eventually get hit a bullseye if he throws enough of 'em :thumleft:

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 8:30 am 
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The Coke theory has been around for a while.

http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/04/did-don-draper-create-the-iconic-buy-the-world-a-coke-television-commercial/

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 10:33 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Thinking about it more, and the general Chase-Weiner rule that bad people never change, it just makes so much sense that Don would be sitting there doing yoga, finding himself, and then the lightbulb comes on and he's taking these beautiful ideas of peace and harmony and co-opting them to sell sugar water. He didn't learn anything after all. That's Our Draper!


I think this is exactly right and it isn't even really ambiguous. Just like The Sopranos ending was very clear to those who paid attention- Tony is dead (or at least he got shot in the head). In a way, this ending was a nod to the ending of The Sopranos.

Mad Men is a cynical show with a cynical main character who is employed in the most cynical of all professions. He's the man who sold you the hula hoop, the yo-yo, and now the man who cynically used hippies (or his idea of them) to sell you Coca-Cola. That's what the little smirk was about.


In many ways, Don creating the "Hilltop" ad is the perfect ending to the show. As you suggest earlier in this thread, Don's social position--and the corporate ethos he embodies--was seriously threatened by 60s radicalism and the counterculture to which it gave birth. The challenge for those in power, then, was how to engage with the counterculture while maintaining a position of social legitimacy. Politically, this was accomplished in many ways, but most notably through "re-branding" the black urban revolution as a massive criminal threat: and so the Nixon administration gave birth to a "War on Crime" in which black youth were filtered into the penitentiary system at an astounding rate, effectively decapitating the vanguard of the radical movement. Similarly, American consumer culture navigated the challenge to its hegemony by appropriating the language of the counterculture to sell products. Ultimately, Don is the genius who saves corporate America by surrendering to the left--but this surrender is, of course, purely symbolic. And Don's genius--while exhilarating to witness--is nevertheless purely destructive.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 10:50 am 
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Well said.

It also occurred to me that in the final episode, Don is drawing inspiration from the new-agers in 1970 just as he drew it from the beatniks in 1960 in the first season, taking notes from the counterculture and bringing them to the mainstream. No change.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 10:56 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Thinking about it more, and the general Chase-Weiner rule that bad people never change, it just makes so much sense that Don would be sitting there doing yoga, finding himself, and then the lightbulb comes on and he's taking these beautiful ideas of peace and harmony and co-opting them to sell sugar water. He didn't learn anything after all. That's Our Draper!


I think this is exactly right and it isn't even really ambiguous. Just like The Sopranos ending was very clear to those who paid attention- Tony is dead (or at least he got shot in the head). In a way, this ending was a nod to the ending of The Sopranos.

Mad Men is a cynical show with a cynical main character who is employed in the most cynical of all professions. He's the man who sold you the hula hoop, the yo-yo, and now the man who cynically used hippies (or his idea of them) to sell you Coca-Cola. That's what the little smirk was about.


In many ways, Don creating the "Hilltop" ad is the perfect ending to the show. As you suggest earlier in this thread, Don's social position--and the corporate ethos he embodies--was seriously threatened by 60s radicalism and the counterculture to which it gave birth. The challenge for those in power, then, was how to engage with the counterculture while maintaining a position of social legitimacy. Politically, this was accomplished in many ways, but most notably through "re-branding" the black urban revolution as a massive criminal threat: and so the Nixon administration gave birth to a "War on Crime" in which black youth were filtered into the penitentiary system at an astounding rate, effectively decapitating the vanguard of the radical movement. Similarly, American consumer culture navigated the challenge to its hegemony by appropriating the language of the counterculture to sell products. Ultimately, Don is the genius who saves corporate America by surrendering to the left--but this surrender is, of course, purely symbolic. And Don's genius--while exhilarating to witness--is nevertheless purely destructive.


Yeah, is there anything more cynical in the history of man than that "Hilltop" commercial? It's an old white guy's impression of "hippies" and "peace and love" used to sell a product. The times they were a-changin'. But Don always was aware of his target consumer and he would have been one of the first to understand the need to market to Baby Boomers and exactly how to do it. Remember when he tried to sign the Rolling Stones and ended up with that cheap replacement.

I know plenty of people who make the claim, "advertising doesn't work on me". We even have a few on this board. As if the purpose of advertising was nothing more than to alert people of a product's availability. If that were the case, an ad for a Pontiac Trans Am would look like this:

Image

instead of like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og8h_X9evXc

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:13 am 
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so was the ending good? Did it wrap everything up in a satisfactory way for ALL the characters?

Trying to decide whether or not to slog through this half season.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:23 am 
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shakes wrote:
so was the ending good? Did it wrap everything up in a satisfactory way for ALL the characters?


No, it didn't, but I don't think that's a prerequisite for a good ending. Everything doesn't need to have a bow on it. In the words of The Damned, life goes on and on and on, if you think it's all gone wrong, go on and on and on.

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 Post subject: Re: Mad Men
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:25 am 
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I thought the characters did exactly what I would have expected them to do.

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