I'm blaming Hastert for taking advantage of a 14 year old kid. Really!!

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the statistics say Sammy Sosa is better than Roberto Clemente.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

First, you don't know that that happened.

Second, I think it's odd that in certain situations a fourteen year old is seen as some fragile fawn and in others he's a a potential savage wilding his way through the Gold Coast. That observation isn't specifically about you, Seacrest, but there are those here- Scorehead for example- who would see a fourteen year old who grabbed an iPhone on the Red Line as the embodiment of evil and then see another fourteen year old who would have sex with a teacher as a naif that was taken advantage of.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Sosa IS better than Clemente.

Clemente IS dead.

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Proud to be UNVERIFIED.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

From what we know, he was a naif that was taken advantage of. His sister has no motive to lie.

From what we also know, even if he wasn't a naif, Denny Hastert shouldn't have had sex with a student of his. One of his duties as a teacher and coach was to protect those in his charge. From what we now know, he chose to prey on them instead.

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We agree that having sex with a student is inappropriate. I don't see the average teenager as "prey" though. In my experience 14 year olds are as manipulative- maybe more so- as any adult.

I assume that you don't believe a fourteen year old should ever be charged as an adult regardless of crcumstances?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

2 year olds are manipulative. should we have sex with them?

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Come on, man!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

If you don't see the average teenager as prey, then that speaks volumes about how fucked up our culture is.

Just because a young girl may be manipulative at 14, are you gonna sleep with her?

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this thread may be used as evidence in a court of law

I never called you a pedophile.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

JORR, when are you around 14 year olds? (maybe I shouldn't ask).

I have some interaction with kids via school, church, friends kids, etc

14 is REALLY young. they are stupid. you could convince them of anything. just look at IMU.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I'm not, but I'm likely not gonna sleep with a 25 year old either even if I had the chance. That doesnt have anything to do with her ability to make her own decisions. There are plenty of 50 year olds who leap at the chance to sleep with 25 year olds.

I notice you haven't answered my question. Should a 14 year old ever be charged as an adult? Are some 14 year olds responsible for their actions while others are not?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I was once 14 myself.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I'll answer. No they should not ever be charged as an adult.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Fair enough. That's a consistent position. I'm gonna guess a lot of people don't feel that way though. Especially if a 14 year old sticks a gun in their ribs.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

This.

A kid that is "wise beyond their years" became that way because they had to or because of a lack of guidance.

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Eric Smith. Josh Phillips. Melinda Loveless, Laurie Tackett, Hope Rippey.

That's really naive and dumb.. I was 14 so were you ... Look up Phillip chism and a couple dozen other rotten 14 year old scumbags.

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I don't have to answer for Hatchet or Seacrest, they can both voice their own opinions with authority. But I think their position is that the adults in the lives of those kids have failed them. And while that may well be the case, I don't think that's all there is to it. I don't see teenagers as naive victims. We live in a society that sexualizes kids at any early age and desensitizes them to violence very quickly. And so I think it's pretty disingenuous to act as if, by the time they reach their mid-teens, they're largely some kind of simon-pure innocents.

If the argument is that a fourteen year old is less mature than an eighteen year old, I certainly agree. But an eighteen year old is generally less mature than a 25 year old. And today, there are plenty of thirty year olds that would be considered childlike in generations past.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Both those guys are church goers , I doubt we will see eye to eye on this . I've seen Seacrest say even timothy McVeigh and Osama bin laden deserve redemption. Not every serial killer and rapist had a horrible upbringing.

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Correct. Not everyone had a bad upbringing.

But redemption requires the offender to apologize. All have that opportunity. Unfortunately, many do not take it.

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You gotta love old guys with no kids who think the legal age of consent should be lowered, & that 14 year olds are capable of making rational decisions when it comes to having sex with adults.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Shut up, dumbfuck. You celebrate a society that sexualizes children at an early age and then you act as if they're naive babies. You're the problem and you can't even see it. You and the consumer culture you love so much causes a 14 year old to be more worldly than ever, while on a personal level you pretend that a teenager is imbued with some purity that will be magically lost a year or two later.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I agree with you that not every bad person had a horrible upbringing on a personal level, but we have to look at the society that we've created. What drives people, etc. We're getting to a part of the conversation where I'm suddenly going to look like the conservative guy. Because I certainly believe a 14 year old is responsible for his/her actions and I have no problem with one being tried as an adult.

And I don't think one has to believe in God to believe in redemption. Redemption is found within oneself. McVeigh had enough time to ponder what he did and reckon with his sincere feelings. I think we'd all like to believe that without some sort of personal repentance a guy like that is burning in eternal hellfire. Maybe in a case like that all the sincere repentance in the world wouldn't even be enough. But even if there is no post-earth judgment, I think a person can still come to terms within himself with his own "god" before exiting this world. What happens next is always going to remain a mystery.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

So the consumer culture automatically sexualizes a child?

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That doesn't seem like a sincere question and more like you want to see what I'm going to say. Because I think you know it does. We use 13 year old models to sell underwear for God's sake.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

In most instances you don't need help from the church to ascertain what is good or evil.

Hurting someone even if they ask to be hurt is not doing good.

Damaging someone so that you can live out your perverted sexual fantasies is not good, that is evil.

Fairly simple stuff.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I'm not a moral relativist. I do believe there are absolute rights and wrongs. It's hard to divorce the concept of morality from religion though, since our ideas about morality have been handed down in the form of religion throughout recorded history.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don