What?

They were an eyelash from winning the world series in their first trip to the playoffs. They are the best team in the AL, and they just got better yesterday. They will always have a chance with that bullpen.


You said bullpens aren't important, if you have Anthony Rizzo. The very next day, the blew a late lead against the worst team in baseball. Then I presented the Tigers, and their situation. That window was open for years. They had the best hitter in the game, and a terrible bullpen, and couldn't get it done.

Bullpens. Are. Important.

Perhaps you should think before hitting submit.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

But they didn't win. Just like the 2003 Cubs didn't make the World Series though they were an "eyelash" away. It doesn't count if it doesn't happen. The Tigers went to the World Series and lost in 2012. And in 2006. So to be honest, they've had more recent success than the Royals. And neither won a thing.

Each team has their strengths and weaknesses. The Cubs' bullpen, right now, is not a great strength. But the Cubs have advantages over the Royals in other areas. Even with Cueto, the Cubs have a better starting pitching staff. And if the Cubs offense gets even a little bit of their shit together - a better offense.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

That's fine and dandy, but when you completely underestimate the importance of bullpens in the playoffs, perhaps you should lighten up with your insulting tone. That's twice now that you have tried to insult me, for blowing holes in your ridiculous premise.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

I like the cut of Chus's jib

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

I didn't even know that I had a jib.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

It sounds like you're getting butthurt.

Number 3.

Lighten the fuck up.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

So bullpens aren't important now?

You better score 6 runs a game a more, any less and you're toast.

Of course the bullpen isn't important in CubsLand until it is important and then it's a year early or a year away as always.

Bad bullpen = 10 or more losses, that's the difference between going to the playoffs and staying home. Or, on a micro level, it's your manager pushing your starters to go deeper into games and then having them gassed when it comes time for the big push either to make the postseason or to succeed in the post season.

A prime quasi-recent example would be the 2006 Chicago White Sox. A bomber offense that could mask the decline in starting pitching but a bullpen that was absolutely atrocious. They won 91 games that year and missed the playoffs. an average bullpen or even slightly below average bullpen and they go deep, maybe even repeat.

I may be off on this one but bullpens don't really get "HOT" like proven starting pitching or a decent closer. Bad bullpen and you ain't got shit.

I am as cool as a cucumber. I enjoy reading bad thoughts, especially when they are being presented as gospel. I thought I went pretty easy on you. I like you, so I'm not going to light you up.

You can continue to be wrong, however I won't insult you.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Chus showing that he's the bigger the man.

You've presented zero examples of a bullpen winning a World Series.

Every facet of a baseball team is important. If you lack in one area, you need to make up for it in another.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

The Giants won 3 in 5 years, with a barely competent offense, and a great bullpen. The Yankees won five with the best closer of all time.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

2005. Finals 6 outs via strikeout in game 1, held the Astros scoreless from the 8th inning on in game 3, and allowed a mere two baserunners after Freddy threw his gem in game 4.

Also, 2005.


Edit- I stand corrected, Jenks went strikeout, groundout, strikeout to end Game 1.

This guy gets it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The Sox bullpen in '05 was tremendous.

How about Boston's bullpen in 2013?

But, what do I know? Anthony Rizzo is so great, that he can make up for a terrible bullpen.

And when you have Joe Maddon, do you even need a bullpen? He should be able to steal a couple games in a playoff series, with all of his gravitas.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Take Rivera away, the Yankees are still winning those. And how about all of the times the Yankees got to the ALCS or World Series in the last 15 years and lost?

Where is Sergio Romo these days? Sucking. He would be the last man in the Cubs bullpen.

Do you forget about Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, Sandoval, Scutaro, Posey, Melky, Huff, Peavy, Morse, Hudson?

They had many heroes, and few were in the bullpen.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

The best closer of all time had no impact on a five time WS champion.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

It seems as if you overestimate the impact of a closer.

That's cool if you're a baseball traditionalist. In 20 years, there won't be set closers any longer. The best bullpen arms will pitch when the other team's best hitters come up.

Analytics.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

No they won't, unless you are going to a 15 man bullpen.

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2018
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10 More Wins

Joe Maddon will have a 15 man bullpen, 3 catchers, 7 other position players, and will still be called a genius.

There have been many examples of "closer by committee" not working very well.

Not at all. My OP was about the strength of the three horses at the back end of the Royals bullpen.

You said that Rizzo is better than Hosmer, so it's not important. I presented Cabrera and the Tigers as the perfect example. A lineup full of mashers, four aces in the rotation, and yet they always came up short.



Non-sequitir, as far as this discussion is concerned.



I know. Theo and Joe are smarter than everybody else. If bullpens were important, the Cubs would have a great bullpen.

I hope for your sake that this was just a troll job, and not some poorly constructed thoughts by a fanboy.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

And the Cubs starting staff is beter than the Tigers starting staff. Fielding the best overall team is what is important. Pieces are pieces.



You brought up a closer specifically when we were discussing bullpens. At a glance, the 1999 Yankees bullpen was TERRIBLE except for Rivera.



You should step our of your shoes and read some of your White Sox thoughts over the last few years.

The organization I root for laid out a clear plan for organizational improvement and have delivered. I have no reason to doubt management.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Whoa there Mr. One World Series isn't enough...

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

What does a World Series win (or multiple World Series wins) have to do with organizational improvement?

Rome was not built in a day.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I'd say it is a little early to say that it delivered, especially with the bar you personally have set for success.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

especially when that moderate success is based principally on non plan philosophies

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Lester, Hammel, and Arrieta are better than Scherzer, Price, and Sanchez? You mad.

Yeah, those guys were no good. That's why Theo wanted Sanchez, and probably wants Price.



Only because you wanted specific examples, of which I gave you many. Way to ignore all of the other strong examples that I provided, and cling to the '99 Yankees, who still won the WS with the best closer of all time. My citing of the Yankees is still so much stronger than suggesting that bullpens aren't important when you have Anthony Rizzo.




Such as? Give me specifics, instead of lazy, sweeping generalizations. I'm hitting you over the head on something specific. The FAIL is strong with this one.



Fanboy status confirmed.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Check the statistics. Don't fall in love with names. The 2015 Cubs rotation is clearly better than the 2012 Tigers rotation. Not close.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Again, cherry picking one season. What about last year's Tigers rotation?

Since, you want to cite the statistics, I just looked them up.

2012 Detroit Tigers pitching staff WAR = 24.4
2015 Cubs pitching staff WAR = 10.4 through 97 games (17.3 for 162 games)



http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2015.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/2012.shtml

It's time to wave the white flag. You done stepped in it.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Saber-metrics evidently make you stupid

_________________
I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Because we're talking about the World Series Tigers, just like you were discussing the World Series Royals.

Using WAR for starting pitchers? Please...

2015 Cubs have the 2012 Tigers beat in ERA, ERA+, FIP, WHIP, etc etc etc. Pretty much every pitching statistic there is.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.