A major part of the plan was seeing pitches. making starters work and eventually come out early.

Say what you want, it has worked well.

# 8,9 and 11 Addy Rusell, Bryant and Fowler...Coghlan #25, Rizzo #27 and Even Starlin is #38 in the NL.

that didnt happen by accident.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

It's worked out well??????? They're batting .214 in Wrigley. Worse than any team since the deadball era.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

If you are going to continue being clear eyed at least get the stat right..... the Cubs are hitting .231 at Wrigley

I guess Cubs fans will just have to suffer at 63-48 and as YOU have taught us all the only stat that matters is the W.

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Is that your rebuttal? Let's throw a party! The fact is their pitch-taking philosophy is an absolute fucking disaster. They've struck out over 1000 times already. You can look that number up if you want. Anyway you slice it, the Cubs are a bad offensive team.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

7th in the National league in OBP, not really working yet.


Of course, some of the young guys will improve significantly (as most young players do) going forward.

So Im not sure you can judge them on a philosophy just yet

Are you telling Jorr not to judge them harshly yet? Or are you telling Biggie not to judge them with praise yet?

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Elections have consequences.

It applies to both, doesnt it?

If most young players improve significantly going forward, the White Sox should be set up to dominant their division with the likes of Sanchez, Garcia, Saladino, Rodon, and Fulmer. But of course, such a thing isn't true. Some guys improve. Other stay the same. Some go backward.

Anyway, this wasn't really a discussion about the value of Cub players going forward, but rather about the philosophy of pitch taking which bigfan characterized as "working", when the fact is that it's leading to a huge number of strikeouts that does not appear to be offset by a significant increase in walks in spite of the fact that they are among the leaders in that category. As it translates into run scoring, they're a middle of the road team at best.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I wouldn't say bad offensive team. I would say young offensive team. They are 2nd in walks and 4th in SB. The best team in MLB has a .270 team batting average. Hitting is down for every team. The hitting should improve as the players mature and the ones that don't improve will be benched (like Castro) and replaced via FA or trade. Relax, it is part of the plan!

I misspoke. What I mean is most players who end up as good/great players dont start out on fire.


Its premature to judge any of the Cubs young hitters.

_________________
Elections have consequences.

except when they are hitting well

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

You want your players to take pitches. Example, last night the MIL pitcher had thrown 80 pitches in 3 innings! They knocked him out early and taxed MIL bullpen for the rest of the series. Maybe today they leave the pitcher in a little longer if he is struggling or let a RH pitcher pitch to Rizzo and BOOM! Big hit, game won!

You need to look at the big picture. Cubs have gone 12-2 the last 14 games and are 3.5 up in the WC. W/L is all that matters at the end of the day and the Cubs keep on flying the W Flag. They are a playoff team and in the top 10 of the league. No way you can argue that fact.

I don't think that's some kind of absolute. You want your players to hit pitches they can hit. When you go up there looking to walk, you're going to put yourself in a lot of bad counts which often results in... that's right- A STRIKEOUT!

How does every pitcher want to start every count? With Strike 1. That's a pretty simple concept. And in most at-bats the best pitch you're going to see is the first pitch. One reason pitchers are dominating so much right now is that the first pitch is often a freebie for the pitcher. The batter is going up there to take. Now he's 0-1 and the next thing you know it's August 1 and your team has struck out 1000 times.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Strikeouts don't matter. Bullpens don't matter.

You want to point out all of these flaws and yet the Cubs are one of the two hottest teams in the league, and have the fourth best record in baseball. In the undisputed best division in baseball.

Yes...the Cubs have so many flaws that it sure does hurt their chances of winning.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Do you really doubt it will at some point?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

You've been telling me how much the Cubs suck for over four months now. They do nothing well, according to you. They keep making mistakes. Players keep busting.

But all I see is consistent improvement and a win-loss record that reflects that.

On this date in 2014, the Giants were on a five game losing streak and were 63-57 with a losing record at home. They were 12th in SI's MLB Power Rankings. A very flawed team. No real threat to do anything in the postseason, if they even managed to make it in.

http://www.si.com/mlb/2014/08/11/mlb-po ... als-giants

Around this time, the Royals were still in first place in the AL Central but no one was taken them seriously as a championship contender. Unproven position players, suspect starting pitching.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I don't think I've ever said the Cubs "suck". You must be confusing me with someone else. I don't think they're a very good team. But things are coming together for them. That happens sometimes. The 2000 White Sox weren't a very good team and they steamrolled the American League.

As far as the busts are concerned, all I've said is that the Core Four has busted which is absolutely true. Three guys are questionable big leaguers and Bryant looks like he'll be like Nick Swisher. A pretty good ballplayer, but not someone to build hopes and dreams of multiple World Series domination over the next ten years around.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

111/162 games is a large enough sample size to judge a team to be 'good' or 'bad.' I'd say the fourth best record out of thirty teams is 'very good.'

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Well, I disagree. And I don't want it to be construed as me "Cub bashing". The 2000 White Sox won 95 games and they weren't a very good team. It's a funny game. Sometimes things just roll right. Like in 1906 when a team that couldn't buy a hit kicked the shit out of a team that is, to this day, considered one of the greatest ever in the World Series. Things are rolling right for the Cubs right now. Hitting .231 at home and just killing teams. I'm happy for you.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Cubs opponents hit .229 at Wrigley.

Wrigley hasn't been an offensive ballpark for years. Global warming has caused below average temperatures and a win that consistently blows in.

I thought pitching wins championships anyway?

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Are you saying it's relative? I knew that W/L record was good for something!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

One team's hitting is the other team's pitching.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

How does every hitter want to start every count? With Ball 1. The stats show the pitcher is more likely to throw a ball then a strike with an 0-0 count. W.Boggs only swung at the first pitch 5.5% of the time and he did ok The data supports not swinging and so does the Cubs win total.

One team's pitching is the other team's hitting.

Also, park factors.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Unfortunately Wade Boggs does not play for the Cubs.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Fortunately, the Cubs have Bryant, Rizzo, Schwarber and Soler instead.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

is 100/162 a good sample size? How would you have judged the team just two weeks ago?

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I know you realize the Cubs' record has little to nothing to do with those guys taking pitches. Bryant is going to strike out close to 200 times. That isn't good.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

A good team making strides in the right direction.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.