.310 BA 9HR's 30 RBI's OBP .400 SLG .595 OPS .995 ROY MVP HOF all this after 35 games.....you are starting to sound like Sox Fans fawning over Abreu

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

What's wrong with Abreu? He is a good player.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

"good" not great

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

As a DH he would be great. His defense hurts his value as a 1B.

He is Top 20 in OPS. 4th highest OPS in the AL for 1B. If he was considered DH as his main position, he'd have the #1 OPS among DH.

For as much as the "Abreu is superior to Rizzo" stance was laughable, Abreu is a very good hitter. Maybe a great hitter.

If the NL had the DH, Abreu would be on a short list of guys I'd want.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

It was not laughable. It was true.

Rizzo has turned the tables though this year. Abreu may take it back next year though.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Okay, sure...of course he will.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I think the discussion was "clearly superior" not just "superior".

There are still six weeks left in the season. I wouldn't be so sure the tables are going to be turned by the end.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Rizzo is the better hitter, defender and runner. We'll ignore his leadership as that's not quantifiable.

Abreu's defense has become especially hideous. I was surprised by his piss poor effort with the glove.

...and yet Abreu was better last year by a considerable margin.

Let me guess though, last year was a fluke and this year is real.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The analysis on those "Just Enough" home runs in 2014 was spot on. Many of those aren't going over the wall this year.

Additionally, the OPS was .964 vs .913 fits the "marginally superior" label, no? I forget my cutoffs, might have been .051 for the next tier.

Either way, since the 2014 ASG Rizzo has been trending way up and Abreu has been trending down. Until either player changes course, I see no need to adjust my thoughts as to who is better.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Not really. He just hasn't been as good. His numbers are down. It would be different if he just had less home runs.
Rizzo is better this year. Not sure what your point is.

We'll see next year.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

What stats?

His babip is about the same, slightly lower. His walk/strikeout ratio is a bit worse but still close and still respectable. His strikeout percentage is almost identical. His LD% is identical. Pitches per PA is the same. He is making more contact than last year.

The only numbers that noticeably changed are related to home runs and extra base hits. Add five home runs instead of fly outs, and suddenly his BABIP is spot on and his OPS numbers are in line with last year.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

2014 Abreu:
fWAR: 5.3
bWAR: 5.5

2015 Rizzo:
fWAR: 5.7
bWAR: 5.2

WAR isn't a precise statistic. The fractional differences are immaterial and essentially indicate they provide the same value. This refutes the Stone's original premise of "Abreu is the FAR SUPERIOR player"

Average, OBP, Walks are all on pace to be down from last year.
Assuming things that were home runs last year would become fly outs seems a little strange to me. Most of those home runs would have simply been hits this year.

Anyways, if what you are saying is that the only difference between MVP candidate Abreu and this year Abreu is 5 home runs then you are proving my point that Abreu may surpass Rizzo next year.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

In 2014, Abreu was better than Rizzo. In 2015, Rizzo is better than Abreu.

As I said though, you think that 2015 is reality and 2014 was a fluke, right?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm saying Stone's original premise "Abreu is a FAR SUPERIOR player" was idiotic.

IF he said Abreu is the FAR SUPERIOR hitter then he MAY have been correct. But he said "player" so you must weigh defense and baserunning as well.

Abreu was 4th in the MVP voting last year.

Now Rizzo is having a great year.

Based on 2014, Stone was right. Based on 2015, Stone was wrong. As I've said, we really need to judge it next year to get a true picture. As IMU has pointed out, Abreu is only 5 home runs away from being an MVP candidate this year!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Well, it sure does make sense that his OBP is down if his average and walks are down! But his average isn't even down that much. Those five home runs I mentioned earlier would have him at .309. And he isn't getting walked as much since he is no longer the same power threat. Last year he had 15 IBB. This year he has 6 so far and will likely finish with 7 or 8. Half as many. That makes up the difference in OBP. His normal BB rate is about the same.


No, home runs that aren't home runs are usually fly outs on the track. That is why the metric used most often is HR/FB% and not HR/LD%. Abreu's LD% is identical.

Go change 5 fly outs to HR, and give Abreu a few more IBB. You have 2014 Abreu. My stance is that Abreu was 'lucky' with last year's power numbers. I said that last year based off his home run metrics, and it was played off as dumb.

Well guess why those home run metrics exist? So we can accurately project Jose Abreu.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Stone was never right. Abreu was not the FAR SUPERIOR player in 2014. They provided essentially the same value.

I don't think it is fair to assume that every home run he hits becomes a flyout, and you seem dead set on that so I'll just move on.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'll accept what you and IMU have to say.

Looks like Abreu has a chance to once again be better than Rizzo next year. He just needs more of those "barely home runs"!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Correct. Or he can hire a nutritionist, improve his baserunning and cut out the deadass effort on defense.

Why? He's just as good this year as he was last year, and he was pretty great last year!

Just needs some of that luck.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

If you hit the ball into the air and it goes a certain distance, it is a home run. If you lessen that distance, there are only so many ways it can shake out. And "out" is the common one.

Out of ground balls, line drives, and fly balls... fly balls have the lowest batting average league wide.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Might even say "Far better'?

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

I love this place.

Arguing over Rizzo and Abreu in a Schwarber thread.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I think its safe to say that Schwarber is far superior to both Abreu and Rizzo.... COMBINED!

Wasn't "far better" defined as .075 OPS?

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.