Aramis was considered a major liability at 3rd when the Cubs got him. He grew into a respectable fielder.
It's not unusual at all that a player gets better with experience. I don't believe for one moment that a player peaks at his defensive ability before or during his first year.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

City, the vast majority of MLB outfielders don't seem to have a problem, Braun has many of them.

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

It's not his first year. It's his seventeenth or so. So you expect a guy to improve in a year or two what he's been doing for 15-17 years? It really just doesn't happen. And trotting out poor defensive players like Aramiz Ramirez isn't convincing.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Are you saying ramirez did not improve after he was brought to the cubs?

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Not in any significant way and all the numbers bear that out. He was shaky at third his entire career. He played in an era where that wasn't a critical flaw.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Robin Ventura
Lorenzo Cain

JORR, how could you miss one of the most obvious guys to improve their defense? He is on your own team!

Alexei Ramirez

one of the most talented young shortstops in baseball. With youth, however, comes inexperience. He showed great range in 2010, and UZR favored him highly. Growing pains seemed to be a bit of a problem for Ramirez in 2010, but that is to be expected of any young player still adjusting to life in at the major league level. Now entering his fourth major league season, Ramirez has shown steady improvement over the first three, and while his offense has been steady, his defense has improved greatly. MLB.com 2011

/end thread

Because it's horseshit. I'll be so glad when that dipshit is gone.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Which metrics are you using for defense?

The horseshit metric.

Debating with JORR reminds me of playing "I win" with Frankenstein.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

So you think they are a finished product defensively, when they hit the major league level? This makes no sense. Players are not rushed to the majors because of a need? Is there some kind of magic number of minor league games played that they need to reach?

Please explain your thinking or is it all just horseshit!

I doubt Juiced goes anywhere. Only White Sox fans and leash get banned by bigfan.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Even you can't defend JORR.

I have difficulty believing that Schwarber will be a worse defensive outfielder than Carlos Lee. As bad as El Caballo? Sure. Worse? Nah.

_________________
"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

but will his offense be as good as Lee's was?

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Likwly similar. He has the benefit of being a lefty, so the production should be a little higher.

A couple of pages back I posted Downing as my high end for him. Caballo is a reasonable median. All sorts of shitty White Six can comprise the floor, but if he can catch passably once a week he will play for 10 years even then.

He is not Joe Borchard or Jeremy Reed.

_________________
"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

Schwarber is gonna be great.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

No doubt about it.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I think Klesko is a good comp.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Based on what? a handful of games? How can you give a comp and then get mad when people give their own comp?

You troll so hard, you can't even remember the basic facts you are trolling with.

Based on his fat ass and big hack.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

What is Kyle Kingman's BA/OBP the last 10 games?

_________________
Elections have consequences.

Kyle Pujols Thomas has a long history of success with the bat. If you are concerned about his bat then you may need glasses.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Since no one answered my question about him still being a catcher?

Anyone know if he is a drunk?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

They will still continue to develop him as a catcher. He isn't.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

he ain't any worse than piazza behind the plate and he's going to the hall of fucking fame.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

The game has changed. No way Piazza stays at catcher today.

This is probably true.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!