Of course not, but you wouldn't know that by sifting through all of the Obama sucks threads.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

I always understand living wage as a single person being able to pay their bills without worry.

Economists do, though $40k is probably high.

The question is why not though? What would be wrong with someone who works 40+ hours a week making enough money to be able to pay rent, utlities, food, car, and clothing for their family? The number is still way too low at a number of places.

I just don't see how you can get mad at people for mooching off the government but also not believe that it is morally abhorrent that someone can work 40 hours in a week and not be able to afford food, shelter, and clothing.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

All jobs have value, or they wouldn't exist. Unskilled labor is still needed. The next generation is going to learn a lot of these lessons as many of the skilled trades become automated too.

I could name plenty of skilled labor jobs that I have no use for, and plenty of unskilled labor jobs that are vital to me. As JORR has pointed out, we have a strange value system when it comes to what jobs are worthy of value and what jobs are not.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This is a sad, short-sighted view of a very large problem. Sadly, many will agree with a portion of this while ignoring the other aspects of the problem.

I’m a conservative…I fully recognize there is some truth behind this generalized scenario. I also fully recognize there’s a bigger problem with the waste our government provides to the Military, Wal-Mart, and the healthcare industry.

I blame Obama. I blame the Unions. I blame the Clintons. I blame the Kennedys.
I also blame the Bushs, the Palins, Donald Trump, Scott Walker.
I blame all elected officials from both parties….that’s our system and it’s broke. It won’t be fixed until the 2-party system is taken down. That starts will people waking up and stop siding with either party.

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Things I never thought I would do..........................................Well said Brick.

Every honest job has value.

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I agree 100%.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

I would argue that money plays a bigger role in governmental abuse than the 2-party system...although they often go hand in hand.

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Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.- JD Vance
If you committed violence on that day, obviously, you shouldn’t be pardoned.- JD Vance on the J-6 insurrectionists

Preach it, JORR

I work a few people who bring up "Obama phones" and illegal immigrants. I said that corporate welfare is more offensive to me than any free phone or illegal immigrants. I don't get a response from that.

I don't think it's strange when you look at it through simple supply and demand. Jobs that anyone can do pay the least, and jobs that only a few people can do pay the most (generally speaking). Is teaching important? Sure. But teachers are a dime a dozen. Is Clayton Kershaw important? Not really in the grand scheme of things. But he has a skill that cannot easily be replicated and is in demand.

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I'm not talking about the difference in compensation at higher levels.

I'm talking about how there are many jobs where people will literally say "That job is not worthy of receiving enough compensation to be able to cloth, feed, and have a shelter for a small family". That is why the answer so often to the concept of low wage workers is "Get a skill that is worth paying for" instead of analyzing the fairness that someone can try and do right and work a full time job and he still can't afford the basic necessities.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't think a lot of people understand what basic necessities are.

Teachers are important. You need good salaries so great people will want that job. I think they are far from a dime a dozen.

Of course that's true, but do you think the best system we can come up with is to treat human beings like commodities traded in a supply and demand economy?

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Freedom is our Strength.

I guess that where my question comes in as far as whats a living wage? Should every job no matter how menial afford someone the basics ( rent,food,clothes) and thats it? Where is the cutoff? Are cell phones ( with the commensurate data plan expense ) A a necessity ? Home computer? cable? Should a "living wage" be able to cover those too? Car payment?Should we expected to raise a family on that kind of wage? Should it be more for people with kids? I threw out the 40k figure earlier as I figured thats basically a 20/hr wage. It enables you to "get by" ( as a single person) with a little left over to OMG maybe save or have a little discretionary income. Should the person folding jeans at The Gap make that much? Cashier at the mini mart? There are people with actual technical training ( i.e mechanic, plumber, machinist) that are around that wage. Is that fair to them? Should their wage in turn go up if you're paying a janitor 20/hr?

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

People with marketable skills aren't traded around. They actually negotiate pay packages because they are in demand by employers. Where it does look like a traded commodity is the unskilled who have no bargaining power int he marketplace because they are replaceable with any other unskilled worker. If I try to hire a guy to cut my lawn and he wants $50, then I do it myself. When they charge $20, then I might hire him. If that same guy comes to fix my dryer, I would happily pay him $50 for that work. It's not my obligation to worry about whether that fee is a living wage. Maybe it should be.

How do you approach hiring people for work around the house?

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Hawaii (fuck) You

It's far from a perfect system, but I believe the problem with a generous safety net is that the moral hazard brings out the worst in human nature. Most welfare programs start out as noble endeavors, but then people figure out how to scam the system, and in many cases, the worst offenders are not the intended aid recipients but rather the people running the programs whose livelihoods are dependent on them.

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This board proves that just about anyone can be employed in the education field.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

Yes, without question. Its not just the bottom wages that have lagged.

I don't really know how many teachers are here or who they are so i will reserve judgment. My point is you want to attract quality people to that job so what they can earn doing something else they should earn as a teacher.

My wife has 2 masters . She qualified?

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

What is her board handle?

edit: I should have something like you...."I know you, but who is the other guy?"

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Boobs

A living wage may include a few other small things but it would mostly mean the ability to have enough food to eat, a place to sleep and keep your stuff, and clothing. To put it another way, it is the level in which you can take care of yourself without government assistance or assistance from other sources.
Why shouldn't the person at the Gap make a living wage? Why shouldn't the cashier at the mini mart? We are talking here about a basic living wage. I doubt those with actual technical training are paid so poorly that they just meet a living wage. I'm guessing they have money for luxuries like vacations and social activities and sports and other things like that. Most of those in the trades that I knew growing up were definitely middle class which is far from just a living wage.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Send me any professional plumbers you find that work for $50 an hour.

What is often left out in these discussions is the fact that in many parts of the US, $40K is a living wage.

Also, let's see a show of hands for all those who have a 401K that only invests in ethical companies.

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Probably the same way you do- I'm looking for the best quality at the lowest price. We're operating within the same system. But that's not the point. What is it that makes certain skills marketable? It's an arbitrary lattice of paradigms that add up to what we call "society". In a different type of society maybe the physically biggest and strongest would hoard all the resources and call you and me "unskilled". What if a clever young buck like IMU or BRick invents a product or a system that renders your particular skillset less than marketable? Should society allow you to starve and laugh at you on message boards as you try to eke out a living?

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Freedom is our Strength.

The problem, human nature being what it is, is that the person working the fry station at McDonald's will start complaining that the person at the Gap has it easy, and shouldn't be making the same "living wage" as he is. There needs to be some objective way to determine how much value a job is worth.

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Creative destruction is hard to beat. I have always been in favor of a modest social safety net. I wish everyone could make more than enough to live. What drives people to improve their skills and develop their talents is that the harder they work at it the more they make. That is why society values a doctor over a bagger at Jewel. Not much harm when the loaf of bread is crushed, but you want your doctor to be well trained in diagnosing your VD.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Then the person at McDonalds should switch to the job at The Gap.

This isn't a discussion about if some jobs should pay better than others. They should. It is the concept that someone can work for 40+ hours a week and not have enough money to eat, clothe, and shelter themselves. It's about the minimum we accept as being fair to the very people who also complain about mooching off the system.

The funny thing is we already have a baseline. We have a number that we set as the minimum that someone can be paid per hour. It's an illogical number with no real reason to be set as it is but it exists. So, we as a society have already decided that every worker should have some minimum guarantee but it doesn't make sense to provide them enough pay to be able to eat?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Because the minimum was reluctantly implemented.

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Freedom is our Strength.