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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:43 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juiced wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
So you guys are claiming that over a third of pitchers who have thrown in MLB this season have had tommy john surgery?

Sorry I don't believe that for a second until I am shown otherwise.

The Alarming Increase in MLB Pitchers Who've Had Tommy John Surgery
By Will Carroll , Sports Injuries Lead Writer Jul 17, 2013

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The Alarming Increase in MLB Pitchers Who've Had Tommy John Surgery
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One-third of current MLB pitchers have had Tommy John surgery. Of the about 360 who started the season, 124 share the all-too-familiar triangular scar.

How surprising is this number? It stunned me! In recent talks with baseball officials, none guessed more than the one-in-nine number I had often seen quoted over the last decade (and quoted myself). Worse, none of us had any idea when this change had happened or noticed the acceleration.

With the help of research assistants, I arrived at the number 124 by going through current rosters and searching news reports for each pitcher, looking to see if he had had Tommy John. The players are listed in this PDF, along with the year of their most recent surgery (players with italicized years have had more than one elbow reconstruction). For a different look at all the names, check out the illustration below.

Why is the number so high? Among the top doctors in sports today, there are theories. It starts with the top reason cited by Dr. Frank Jobe, the creator of Tommy John surgery.

"Overuse," he said plainly.

Bleacher Report's tabulation of current pitchers who've had Tommy John is part of a package of stories about the surgery and Jobe, who will be honored at the Baseball Hall of Fame ceremonies in late July. Also in the package are the history and legacy of Jobe and Tommy John, a detailed look at the realities and myths of the surgery and profiles of notable cases over the past four decades.


John Smoltz is one of the most notable beneficiaries of Tommy John surgery.
While pitch counts and innings totals during the season have gone down over the last 40 years, since Jobe first did the procedure, year-round pitching at youth levels has increased dramatically. Renowned sports surgeon Dr. James Andrews often points to this lack of rest as a major reason for the increase in surgeries. His program calls for two or three months off from throwing, though he encourages participation in other sports.

Across sports medicine, almost all doctors agree that this is an overuse problem that starts at a young age. Dr. Tim Kremchek performed Tommy John surgery on two pitchers who had gone to the Little League World Series the previous season. At just 14 years old, these young athletes surely enjoyed reaching the peak of the Little League game, but at what cost for the effort it took to get there?

The push of surgeries to younger pitchers is also creating more time for reconstructed ligaments to fail, making more surgery necessary.

Rob Carr/Getty Images
Research I did in 2006 led me to the concept of the "Tommy John honeymoon." I found that five years after surgery, there were very few additional elbow problems, which indicated the transplanted ligament was stronger. Further research showed that the process called ligamentization was at work.

However, after the five-year period, the tendon becomes a normal ligament, subject to the same kind of overuse injuries. With so many pitchers getting a first surgery, often when they're quite young, there's a greater chance a second surgery will be necessary.

Just last season, former elite closers Joakim Soria and Brian Wilson underwent second surgeries. Pitchers have undergone third, fourth and even fifth Tommy John surgeries, though these are very rare.

The increase in the procedure comes down to the availability of a workable procedure that keeps younger pitchers in the game. A generation ago, most pitchers with elbow problems were forced out of the game.

It is clear the game is better because of a miraculous surgery that nearly guarantees the return of pitchers who would have been done otherwise. What is equally clear is baseball as a whole has no idea how to stop this rapid acceleration of arm injuries. The number 124 is proof.


Thanks RPB. JORR will find something wrong with this article and keep giving idiotic examples of why he thinks he is correct.



Correct about what? I made no statement in this thread. You do know the difference between a statement and a question, don't you? Fuckin' dumbass.


Don't try and pretend you where not trying to call me out on my statement.
JORR: Can you please enlighten me with some facts on the injury rate of pitchers. Thanks so much and have a nice day. 8)

OR

JORR: Hey dumbass, show me proof that supports the crap coming out of your mouth. :evil:

Who you crappin?


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:45 pm 
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boys, don't make me look like I know what I'm talking about. Hawkins is a 20 year old player in high A with 5 tools who will hit 20HR this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:48 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
boys, don't make me look like I know what I'm talking about. Hawkins is a 20 year old player in high A with 5 tools who will hit 20HR this year.


He's so far away, he's part of the next "core."

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:10 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
boys, don't make me look like I know what I'm talking about. Hawkins is a 20 year old player in high A with 5 tools who will hit 20HR this year.


He's so far away, he's part of the next "core."


Prospect talk is far too confusing for my simple mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:08 pm 
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Juiced wrote:

Don't try and pretend you where not trying to call me out on my statement.
JORR: Can you please enlighten me with some facts on the injury rate of pitchers. Thanks so much and have a nice day. 8)

OR

JORR: Hey dumbass, show me proof that supports the crap coming out of your mouth. :evil:

Who you crappin?


Maybe you don't understand odds, dimwit. If a third of pitchers need surgery, that means two-thirds do not. So that would suggest that odds are that a pitcher won't need surgery. It's what we call an approximately 66% chance or just about 2-1 against. Did you attend the Elmhurst Steve Academy of Mathematics or something?

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:40 pm 
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I thought we went over this already.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:18 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juiced wrote:

Don't try and pretend you where not trying to call me out on my statement.
JORR: Can you please enlighten me with some facts on the injury rate of pitchers. Thanks so much and have a nice day. 8)

OR

JORR: Hey dumbass, show me proof that supports the crap coming out of your mouth. :evil:

Who you crappin?


Maybe you don't understand odds, dimwit. If a third of pitchers need surgery, that means two-thirds do not. So that would suggest that odds are that a pitcher won't need surgery. It's what we call an approximately 66% chance or just about 2-1 against. Did you attend the Elmhurst Steve Academy of Mathematics or something?


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-mlb-s-elbow-epidemic-is-mowing-through-young-pitchers-and-has-no-solution-023608037.html

Compounding the percentages, the league believes a rookie pitcher had somewhere in the neighborhood of a 15 to 20 percent chance of blowing out by the end of his first major league season. A pitcher with 10 years of major league service time: better than a 50 percent chance.


I WIN !!!!

Juiced W-2
Jorr L-2


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:14 am 
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No comment JORR? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:19 am 
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Juiced wrote:
No comment JORR? :lol:


I'm not going to explain odds to you. Buy a book.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:21 am 
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Juiced wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juiced wrote:

Don't try and pretend you where not trying to call me out on my statement.
JORR: Can you please enlighten me with some facts on the injury rate of pitchers. Thanks so much and have a nice day. 8)

OR

JORR: Hey dumbass, show me proof that supports the crap coming out of your mouth. :evil:

Who you crappin?


Maybe you don't understand odds, dimwit. If a third of pitchers need surgery, that means two-thirds do not. So that would suggest that odds are that a pitcher won't need surgery. It's what we call an approximately 66% chance or just about 2-1 against. Did you attend the Elmhurst Steve Academy of Mathematics or something?


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-mlb-s-elbow-epidemic-is-mowing-through-young-pitchers-and-has-no-solution-023608037.html

Compounding the percentages, the league believes a rookie pitcher had somewhere in the neighborhood of a 15 to 20 percent chance of blowing out by the end of his first major league season. A pitcher with 10 years of major league service time: better than a 50 percent chance.


I WIN !!!!

Juiced W-2
Jorr L-2


I think we can all agree that a won-loss record tells us absolutely nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:21 am 
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WestmontMike wrote:
Juiced wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juiced wrote:

Don't try and pretend you where not trying to call me out on my statement.
JORR: Can you please enlighten me with some facts on the injury rate of pitchers. Thanks so much and have a nice day. 8)

OR

JORR: Hey dumbass, show me proof that supports the crap coming out of your mouth. :evil:

Who you crappin?


Maybe you don't understand odds, dimwit. If a third of pitchers need surgery, that means two-thirds do not. So that would suggest that odds are that a pitcher won't need surgery. It's what we call an approximately 66% chance or just about 2-1 against. Did you attend the Elmhurst Steve Academy of Mathematics or something?


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-mlb-s-elbow-epidemic-is-mowing-through-young-pitchers-and-has-no-solution-023608037.html

Compounding the percentages, the league believes a rookie pitcher had somewhere in the neighborhood of a 15 to 20 percent chance of blowing out by the end of his first major league season. A pitcher with 10 years of major league service time: better than a 50 percent chance.


I WIN !!!!

Juiced W-2
Jorr L-2


I think we can all agree that a won-loss record tells us absolutely nothing.


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:24 am 
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All minus one.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:13 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juiced wrote:
No comment JORR? :lol:


I'm not going to explain odds to you. Buy a book.


Someone needs to explain odds to you. PITCHERS HAVE A GREATER THEN 50% chance to have surgery.

What fucked up explination do you have saying < 50% is better odds then > 50%? :?


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:14 pm 
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Have no fear...just heard hawk say that Hahn has the sox perfectly positioned to be a strong, strong, strong contender for the next 5 or 6 years. Also, that robin Ventura is the right man for the job!

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:47 am 
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I would say 3 years, but Hawk is correct on both counts. There's really nothing wrong with Robin.


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:17 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
DeAza was penciled in as a backup, not an everyday OF. How do you know he wasn't shopped in the offseason and there just weren't any takers.

It takes time to turn around a 99 loss team who was starting guys like Blake Tekkotte, Jeff Keppinger, Héctor Giménez, Josh Phegley, Tyler Greene, and who was pitching guys like Hector Santiago, Ramón Troncoso, Brian Omogrosso, David Purcey, etc. It was bad. It will get better, sooner rather than later. The Sox will not lose 90+ games three years in a row on purpose or on accident.

Again, the Cubs are not a good measuring stick. Do you judge Bears seasons vs how the Browns did?








Sox on pace to lose 90 :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:30 pm 
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IMU wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
I'm scared to comp Arismendy Alcantara...I think this guy might be pretty special for a middle infielder. The "other prospect" might end up being one of the better ones.

I'm quite the scout. Maybe this helps us forget the whole Brett Jackson fiasco of 2012.





:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:38 am 
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Heard a stat on B&B the other day that blew my mind. Going back to all White Sox draft picks since 2001, the position player with the highest WAR (cumulative for all years) is Gordon Beckham at 6.5. Second was Ryan Sweeney at 6.0 (with most of that coming for other teams). I believe they said only 4 players drafted by the Sox were net positive WAR in the last 15 years.

If true, I can't imagine a system being any worse than that (though I guess it's somewhat mitigated if a team primarily drafts pitchers in the higher rounds). Would love to see a comparison to other teams.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:54 pm 
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Abysmal ! Agreed .


But who did the Cubs draft in that era ? Castro is probably the best n I don't even want him on the team.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:00 pm 
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Ok so the latest history of the Sox is not good and jokes should be made at times. But why is it a proven fact to get on Hahn for taking the I want Pitchers plan versus Theo's I want hitters plan? Sale, Erickson, Rodon and Fullmer are possibly great picks (well Sale already is). Why do the Sox get the hate versus the Cub's plan?

Because they are the Sox that is why. I am not saying it is right but given today's baseball landscape is it not smart to draft pitchers that should be good and burn them up rather than give 5 years at $155M to shit?

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:31 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Is what? What exactly is he building on the Southside? Why is he comfortable with a manager that doesn't know how to manage? Does Don Cooper have more pull than Hahn? Why is he considered safe when the Sox staff leads the MLB in walks and is 27th in ERA and summer just started. How could he think depending on John Danks, Andre Rienzo, Erik Johnson, or Scott Carroll would be a good idea? The bullpen? Woof.

Does his vision totally disregard baseball IQ, basic fielding and baserunning competency? When does the Michigan Man start getting asked questions? Where's the accountability? The South Side is the smart baseball fan. How could they be so stupid to buy Hahn's bullshit?

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:40 pm 
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Everybody calm down. Its baseball. Even crap teams have a good week. A week ago Saturdsy everyone was running papa Ricky out of town.


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:58 pm 
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Phil Leotardo wrote:
Everybody calm down. Its baseball. Even crap teams have a good week. A week ago Saturdsy everyone was running papa Ricky out of town.

Predict the Sox final record then.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:19 pm 
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My own opinion about the arm injuries is the advent of the current ball being used, its lack of raised seams and the pitchers employing more splitters and change-ups while having a slippery surface on the ball itself. This is also why the ball is traveling so much farther. Lack of friction.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:38 pm 
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Phil Leotardo wrote:
Everybody calm down. Its baseball. Even crap teams have a good week. A week ago Saturdsy everyone was running papa Ricky out of town.

How is your Eloy O Meter thread working out?

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:39 pm 
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Frank Coztansa, in June 2015, wrote:

This stretch of poor Sox baseball has again debunked the theory of Cubs fans not caring about the Sox. When the Sox are doing well, Cubs fans don't see to care. As soon as the Sox start scuffling a little bit, or Hawk gets quiet, Cubs fans start caring an awful lot.
The more things change, the more things stay the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:48 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Phil Leotardo wrote:
Everybody calm down. Its baseball. Even crap teams have a good week. A week ago Saturdsy everyone was running papa Ricky out of town.

Predict the Sox final record then.


Less wins than last year. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:23 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Phil Leotardo wrote:
Everybody calm down. Its baseball. Even crap teams have a good week. A week ago Saturdsy everyone was running papa Ricky out of town.

How is your Eloy O Meter thread working out?


He'll come back to earth, just like future hall of famer Luis Robert has


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:27 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Phil Leotardo wrote:
Everybody calm down. Its baseball. Even crap teams have a good week. A week ago Saturdsy everyone was running papa Ricky out of town.

Predict the Sox final record then.


You didn't address my post, which is everyone wetting their pants over one hot week. They should win around 32 games. They have 14 games left with the awful Tigers, Royals, and Pirates.


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:55 pm 
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How MANY games do the Cubs have left with the Tigers, Pirates, and Reds, dipshit?

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