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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:26 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Sometimes I understand why JORR takes heat for his thoughts. I don't understand it in this thread. He didn't say anything close to outrageous. He said Abreu is a better hitter than Rizzo. I'm pretty sure that's a true statement. I think their numbers would look a lot different if they swapped lineups.

Its not the opinion on Rizzo, its the hypocrisy of saying that Cub fans always take the best stretch and think that is the truth and he's doing the exact same thing with Abreu.

There is absolutely no reason to think Rizzo cant continue to be a good hitter. To say he's "probably having his best year" for the second year in a row just doesnt make sense.

If he does it again next year, will that also "probably be his best year" for the third time?

I don't think JORR has come close to suggesting he won't continue to be a good hitter. Rizzo is obviously an MVP candidate this year. JORR is saying he's probably not a perennial MVP contender. He may be wrong about that, but I don't think it's extreme bias that informed that opinion. Taking exception to that statement is actually kind of sensitive.

Again, its not what Rizzo is, it's the hypocrizy of how he treats the two situations and the fact that he hilariously accuses Cub fans of what he's doing with Abreu.


Has Rizzo ever looked overmatched in the big leagues? Has Abreu? You really don't see the difference? That's your bias. Not mine.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:27 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juiced wrote:
Except no one said he was going to be a perennial MVP contender. :lol: :lol: WTF you guys pick lists of trolling topics out of a hat every day?



You don't have to actually type it. If you're arguing that this year is his normal year, you are saying it.

It's really simple

Abreu and Rizzo have very similar numbers over the last two years. There is really no reason to think either will fall off or improve drastically.

If you think one is or will be significantly better than the other, its not because of anything reasonable.


They have similar numbers this year. Last year Abreu was obviously better. There's your bias.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:29 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Has Rizzo ever looked overmatched in the big leagues? Has Abreu? You really don't see the difference? That's your bias. Not mine.

Im not sure what Abreu did when he was 23. Lots of players struggle early on.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:29 pm 
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sinicalypse wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Try to act like you've been there before. :lol: :lol:


they'll have plenty of chances due to possible cubbie occurence/s in game163/WC. wouldnt it suck if jake arrieta woke up and was like "holy shit i'm jake arrieta" and was like 6IP 4ER 4K and the cubs lost a heartbreaker despite pedro strop moonwalking back to the dugout after he got the last out in the 7th?

JORR JORR JORR OF THE JUNGLE FRIEND TO YOU AND JERRY....... WATCH OUT FOR THOSE CUBBIES!

^^^^ TRANSLATED TO ENGLISH = i got nothing.

you're like rancid crooned on salvation: MAN ON A MISSION. your commitment to the bit/schtick is admirable, especially as it's getting to be pretty ironic now, eh? but like i said, every non-cubs-fan or especially cubs-hater should cheer them on to become an unstoppable juggernaught favored to rule the universe with an iron fist (you know, AT LEAST the 90s braves with 3-4 championships. AT LEAST) because then when the cubbie occurrences / fuckups happen it'll be all the more glorious. and it couldnt happen to a nicer fanbase who's out there all puffy chested with other fans like YEAH SEE THIS IS HOW YOU BUILD A TEAM THE RIGHT WAY, YOU DO IT AROUND THE BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL: JAKE ARRIETA!

but hey if all else fails they at least are well versed in the fine art of bellowing WAIT TIL NEXT YEAR, eh? =D

i just farted and it was a rather audible ripping of the ass. that's god's way of telling me that this post is done. adios!



There's a few members that annoy the hell out of me in an entertaining way and at least a one that can't keep from getting a rake to the nuts every time he posts (welcome back) but I must say you by far are the weirdest.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:30 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Even if they win, they have nothing to hold over as the Sox did it first in our lifetimes. Maybe if they win two, maybe.


The problem with this is that no one cares but a handful of Sox fans about 2005. If the Cubs win it will be the biggest thing in Chicago since the 1985 Bears. Bryant, Rizzo, Russell, Shwartz and Maddon, Theo will be rock stars, open bars and have movies made of them.

And that my friend is what White Sox fans are really upset about. You can throw up your 2005, we did it first comment and watch is get smashed like a K.Bryant HR!


Last edited by Juiced on Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:31 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juiced wrote:
Except no one said he was going to be a perennial MVP contender. :lol: :lol: WTF you guys pick lists of trolling topics out of a hat every day?



You don't have to actually type it. If you're arguing that this year is his normal year, you are saying it.

It's really simple

Abreu and Rizzo have very similar numbers over the last two years. There is really no reason to think either will fall off or improve drastically.

If you think one is or will be significantly better than the other, its not because of anything reasonable.


They have similar numbers this year. Last year Abreu was obviously better. There's your bias.

:lol:

WAR
Abreu5.5
Rizzo 5.2

WAR
Abreu 3.6
Rizzo 5.8


Now JORR is going to come along and explain how the .03 difference last year is way more significant thatn the 2.2 diff this year


Last edited by rogers park bryan on Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:31 pm 
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JORR doesn't count defense. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:31 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
They have similar numbers this year. Last year Abreu was obviously better. There's your bias.

Last year, Abreu's OPS was .051 higher.

This year, Rizzo's OPS is .071 higher.

How is .051 obviously better, but .071 is similar?


Enlarged to show detail.

Also, what RPB said. This is turning into criminal abuse.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:33 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
:lol:

WAR
Abreu5.5
Rizzo 5.2

WAR
Abreu 3.6
Rizzo 5.8


Why did you choose WAR? Because of my bias? :lol: You know it's loaded defensively and I can find posts of yours admitting that the defensive component of WAR is seriously suspect, but you post this? Your bias is showing.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:34 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
:lol:

WAR
Abreu5.5
Rizzo 5.2

WAR
Abreu 3.6
Rizzo 5.8


Why did you choose WAR? Because of my bias? :lol: You know it's loaded defensively and I can find posts of yours admitting that the defensive component of WAR is seriously suspect, but you post this? Your bias is showing.

I just posted OPS.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:34 pm 
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Juiced wrote:
If the Cubs win it will be the biggest thing in Chicago since the 1985 Bears.
No.

Did you forget the Jordan Bulls existed?

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:34 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
JORR doesn't count defense. :lol:



Not at first base. The difference between Jim Spencer and Dr. Strangeglove isn't worth discussing. It's just not a defensive position. Most balls a first baseman handles are thrown right to him.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:35 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juiced wrote:
Except no one said he was going to be a perennial MVP contender. :lol: :lol: WTF you guys pick lists of trolling topics out of a hat every day?



You don't have to actually type it. If you're arguing that this year is his normal year, you are saying it.


I don't know what an normal year is for Rizzo. He could be having a career year, but at his young age it is very possible he can have more of these type of years ahead of him. So saying he will never do this again is just as stupid as saying he will do it every year.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:35 pm 
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I'll attempt this again.

IMU wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
They have similar numbers this year. Last year Abreu was obviously better. There's your bias.

Last year, Abreu's OPS was .051 higher.

This year, Rizzo's OPS is .071 higher.

How is .051 obviously better, but .071 is similar?


Enlarged to show detail.

Also, what RPB said. This is turning into criminal abuse.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:36 pm 
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IMU wrote:
I'll attempt this again.

IMU wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
They have similar numbers this year. Last year Abreu was obviously better. There's your bias.

Last year, Abreu's OPS was .051 higher.

This year, Rizzo's OPS is .071 higher.

How is .051 obviously better, but .071 is similar?


Enlarged to show detail.

Also, what RPB said. This is turning into criminal abuse.
Before you argued that Abreu is basically just as good this year, just less lucky, so....

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:37 pm 
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WAR isn't meant to be a precise statistic. Tenths of a difference are negligible.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:37 pm 
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IMU wrote:
I'll attempt this again.

IMU wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
They have similar numbers this year. Last year Abreu was obviously better. There's your bias.

Last year, Abreu's OPS was .051 higher.

This year, Rizzo's OPS is .071 higher.

How is .051 obviously better, but .071 is similar?


Enlarged to show detail.

Also, what RPB said. This is turning into criminal abuse.

Look at OPS+

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:38 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Juiced wrote:
[
:lol: Fuck you and your apology!!!


I apologize that you were offended but if I did, so be it


:lol: Bringing the bombs :bom:


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:38 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
They have similar numbers this year. Last year Abreu was obviously better. There's your bias.

Last year, Abreu's OPS was .051 higher.

This year, Rizzo's OPS is .071 higher.

How is .051 obviously better, but .071 is similar?


Enlarged to show detail.

Also, what RPB said. This is turning into criminal abuse.


There's a lot more to those numbers. First of all, Abreu finished 2014 20 points higher than Rizzo in adjusted OPS. Right now, about ten points separates them and the season isn't over. Plus, Rizzo's is loaded with walks.

We can argue all day long about walks. I don't believe in the conventional wisdom that "not making an out" should be the goal of every batter. I know you disagree.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:43 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
.

We can argue all day long about walks. I don't believe in the conventional wisdom that "not making an out" should be the goal of every batter. I know you disagree.


:lol: Oh come on JORR. You said K.Bryant is not having a good rookie year because of his K's and ignored his HR and RBI's. NOW you are saying Rizzo walks are over rated and we should ignore the K's?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:45 pm 
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Juiced wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Even if they win, they have nothing to hold over as the Sox did it first in our lifetimes. Maybe if they win two, maybe.


The problem with this is that no one cares but a handful of Sox fans about 2005. If the Cubs win it will be the biggest thing in Chicago since the 1985 Bears. Bryant, Rizzo, Russell, Shwartz and Maddon, Theo will be rock stars, open bars and have movies made of them.

And that my friend is what White Sox fans are really upset about. You can throw up your 2005, we did it first comment and watch is get smashed like a K.Bryant HR!


You certainly think a lot about 2005 and its relation to the world for a guy who doesn't care about 2005.

I don't spend any time thinking about it. I just bask in its loving warmth.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:46 pm 
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Juiced wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
.

We can argue all day long about walks. I don't believe in the conventional wisdom that "not making an out" should be the goal of every batter. I know you disagree.


:lol: Oh come on JORR. You said K.Bryant is not having a good rookie year because of his K's and ignored his HR and RBI's. NOW you are saying Rizzo walks are over rated and we should ignore the K's?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I never said Bryant was not having a good rookie year. I have been the champion of Bryant all along. Even back when you "Cub fans" wanted him in Iowa.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:47 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Juiced wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Even if they win, they have nothing to hold over as the Sox did it first in our lifetimes. Maybe if they win two, maybe.


The problem with this is that no one cares but a handful of Sox fans about 2005. If the Cubs win it will be the biggest thing in Chicago since the 1985 Bears. Bryant, Rizzo, Russell, Shwartz and Maddon, Theo will be rock stars, open bars and have movies made of them.

And that my friend is what White Sox fans are really upset about. You can throw up your 2005, we did it first comment and watch is get smashed like a K.Bryant HR!


You certainly think a lot about 2005 and its relation to the world for a guy who doesn't care about 2005.

I don't spend any time thinking about it. I just bask in its loving warmth.



Image2015


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:48 pm 
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you pull up the Fangraphs tab on defense and Abreu has much better stats than Rizzo! Then you go to the WAR calculation and Rizzo has a much higher defensive WAR. I can't figure this shit out. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:48 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
:lol:

WAR
Abreu5.5
Rizzo 5.2

WAR
Abreu 3.6
Rizzo 5.8


Why did you choose WAR? Because of my bias? :lol: You know it's loaded defensively and I can find posts of yours admitting that the defensive component of WAR is seriously suspect, but you post this? Your bias is showing.

Its funny you (predictably) say that.

Guess who still has the larger dif when you strip away defense?

Yes. I agree. Throw away dWAR. (Although you go way overboard on discounting defense)


No bias here, Jorr. Sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:50 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juiced wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
.

We can argue all day long about walks. I don't believe in the conventional wisdom that "not making an out" should be the goal of every batter. I know you disagree.


:lol: Oh come on JORR. You said K.Bryant is not having a good rookie year because of his K's and ignored his HR and RBI's. NOW you are saying Rizzo walks are over rated and we should ignore the K's?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I never said Bryant was not having a good rookie year. I have been the champion of Bryant all along. Even back when you "Cub fans" wanted him in Iowa.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:51 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
IMU wrote:
I'll attempt this again.

IMU wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
They have similar numbers this year. Last year Abreu was obviously better. There's your bias.

Last year, Abreu's OPS was .051 higher.

This year, Rizzo's OPS is .071 higher.

How is .051 obviously better, but .071 is similar?


Enlarged to show detail.

Also, what RPB said. This is turning into criminal abuse.

Look at OPS+

Look at your ballpark, and the White Sox offense. OPS+ can be severely flawed, and can inflate a good player playing on a shit team since it is weighted against all other at bats at that ballpark. Most people that bat at US Cellular do suck, because the White Sox offense sucks, and so any player that is actually a pretty good player will look excellent by comparison.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:54 pm 
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We, as a board need to agree to a stat and go with it.

Ops+ wOBA both seem like fine choices


No stat shows what Jorr said (Abreu way better last year and this year similar) because its just not true


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:56 pm 
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JOR I think it's time


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Cub Fans...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:58 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
We, as a board need to agree to a stat and go with it.

Ops+ wOBA both seem like fine choices


I'll see your OPS+ & wOBA and suggest wins and titles. "You. Play. To. Win. The. Game!" :wink:

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