This is what I was getting at. Reader is right about Hayes. He was just the poster boy for tough to me back then.

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Elections have consequences.

The schedule is pretty much set at the end of every season. Only thing we wait for is the order of the games.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Favre played his entire career in the pass interference era. The era I have in mind is prior to 1985.

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Elections have consequences.

I agree, but the Mel Blount rule was put into place (to placate Shula's whiny ass) in what, 77-78? Defenses were certainly were more aggressive then, but outside of Dallas, SD and maybe another place or two, offenses were extremely conservative until the mid 80's.

I'm not saying that QB's were anywhere near like the delicate china pieces they are now, but certain coaches (& whiny assed QBs ) got more than their share of late hit flags back in the day as well. And got their receivers maimed with questionable passes.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

It does? How?

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Mon Dieu! Fouts played 14 seasons in the NFL. During that time he played 181 games, started 171.

Defenses were still tough in the 90's and early 2000's. Farve took a beating that a flower girl like Rodgers never will take.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Rodgers can't beat a really good defense, as evidenced against the Seattle defense in 2014. Brady has never played against one.

Hell, Rodgers can't even beat Detroit!!!

I am not referring to beatings and sacks at all. I am strictly saying that the only three outcomes of a pass plays since the near past are overthrow, drop or pass interference for the most part. Okay so maybe not that simple but it is now a very high percentage you get a PI call for what amounts to nothing.

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Elections have consequences.

The dumbest call that Favre and his era had was the stupid face guarding PI btw.

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Elections have consequences.

Jim Hart played 18 seasons for the St. Louis Cardinals. During that time he played 199 games & started 180. I can find Pro Bowl QBs with similar games/games started numbers everywhere, again, your point being?

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

We're talking about Brady. I think he faced Seattle last year, no? As for the NFL not wanting Brady embarrassed in 2013 he wasn't getting there because he had almost no truly good receivers around, certainly not w/Gronk (& Edelman?) hurt.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

It's like you try to find the dumbest possible take on every topic.

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/20 ... rized.html

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Fouts was MONEY. He averaged 300 yrds. passing per game from '80 until '84. Five frigging years against the toughest defenses EVER.

Brady has had only three 300 yrds. per game seasons against Mickey Mouse defenses.

End of Story.

Brady lost the battle against male patter baldness.... But he seems to have won the war.

when push came to shove, fouts laid eggs in the playoffs on teams loaded with offensive firepower. no way he is in the conversation for top-10 qb of all time, but a top-10 favorite is fine.

Just when I thought it couldn't get more laughable. Fouts was "MONEY"? He faced the "toughest defenses EVER" between 80 & 84?

Goddamn son, save some for the rest of us. No Super Bowl appearances, EVER. Average AT BEST playoff record. Doesn't equate to "MONEY" to anyone rational I know.

Show me one, one single solitary member of the "toughest defenses EVER" in the AFC between 80-84. Maybe the Raiders are in the top twenty discussion but that's about it. The Steelers? In 79-80 Staubach should have had them beaten in a shootout and Vince f-ing Ferragamo hung a respectable number on them in the Super Bowls. Once Mean Joe left & with the rules changes(like PM & GK said), they were a shadow of their former selves during that period.

I defy you to show me one other AFC team in that period (for even one season) to even reasonably join the discussion of "toughest ever". Hoo boy, this is rich!

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

It's not hard for Brady to put yardage against teams, when opposing coaches can't use their headsets at Gillette Stadium.

You mean to say that the Ronnie Lott led 49ers defenses of the early 80s weren't good?? They beat the Bears in 85' for Crissake!!!

01/06/1985 † Chicago Bears San Francisco 49ers A Candlestick Park (San Francisco, CA) L 23-0

This is too easy.

I asked for one AFC "toughest ever" defense that Fouts would have faced between 80-85. You gave me none. You should have stood quiet at that point, but no. You give us Ronnie Lott & the Niners who were not routine opponents of the Chargers...and never faced them in the playoffs, I mean Super Bowls. Trying to figure out what their beating the Bears has to do with this (for you) is amusing.

Btw, when opposing coaches can't use their headsets, neither can the home team.

I'm glad you're stopping with the Fouts is MONEY argument though.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Not according to Mike Tomlin last night.

The original argument was Brady is the best of all time. I gave evidence that Fouts was better with five years of 300 yrds. per game averages from '80 to '84, compared to Brady with three, and those years were sporadic. You said only one defense was really good in the early 80s, the Raiders. I countered with the Lott led 49ers and earlier mentioned the Redskins. Redskins were 8-1 in the shortened 82' season, 14-2 in 83' (losing to the Raiders) and 11-5 in 84'. Of course Fouts had to play against those teams, even though he played in the AFC West.

The reason I brought up the '84 Bears is because the team was similarly constituted to the Superbowl winning '85 team.

Fouts wasn't better. He had a stronger arm than Brady, but that's it.

His numbers weren't great for five regular seasons (really just 80-82 and one was a strike shortened year). He had a ton of yards, but his TD/Int ratio was always high. His completion rate, even with a HOF WR & TE was generally just a tick above average. Except for the Radiers, he never routinely faced good defenses.

He wasn't typically very good in the playoffs. He never made a SB appearance. He WAS a whiny baby who loved to point fingers. He wasn't a team leader & WAS a giant self promoter. His teams had losing records in 83 & 84 and not only lost to the Raiders, they got annihilated by the only other good team in their division. Fouts has to eat some of that, no?

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Fout's resume:

In 15 seasons, Fouts completed 3,297 passes for 43,040 yards and 254 touchdowns and an 80.2-point rating. He also rushed for 476 yards and scored 13 touchdowns. At the time of his retirement, he was one of only three quarterbacks to pass for more than 40,000 yards. He led the NFL in passing yardage four straight years from 1979 to 1982, and became the first player in history to throw for 4,000 yards in three consecutive seasons.

Fouts was the AFC Player of the Year in 1979 and then, in 1982, he was named the NFL Most Valuable Player by the Pro Football Writers of America, the AFC Player of the Year by United Press International and the NFL Offensive Player of the Year by Associated Press. He was also an All-Pro choice in 1979, 1982, and 1985 and All-AFC in 1979 and 1982.

He played in six Pro Bowls in a seven-year span. In both 1980 and 1981, Fouts led the Chargers to the AFC championship game. The Oakland Raiders defeated the Chargers 34-27 in 1980 in spite of Fouts' 336-yard, two-touchdown passing performance. The 1981 AFC title game was played in 59-below-zero wind chill conditions. Still, Fouts completed 15 passes for 185 yards and the Chargers’ only touchdown, a 33-yard pass to Kellen Winslow, in a hard-fought loss to the Cincinnati Bengals.
- See more at: http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/membe ... be7qr.dpuf

I still remember that San Diego playoff game in 1980 against the Raiders. At the time it was the greatest game ever played to me. First pass from Fouts was a 60 yrd. pass play at 12:00 on the tape (50 yrds. in the air). That's greatness for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvSpfdRhcEE

I only saw Dan Fouts play near the end of his career with the Chargers. But I’ve always thought he’s underrated as a football commentator. In my opinion, he’s a better broadcaster than the lead guys such as Simms, Aikman, etc.

Anyone that thinks Fouts was better than Brady is just down right stupid.

Fouts does not even deserve in the same conversation.

Fouts was a good QB who was one of the better QBs of his generation.

Brady is THE best QB of his generation and one of, if not the, greatest QBs of all time.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

at least now i know this is a put on when you cite 2 playoff losses as indicators of his greatness. you had me actually believing what you were saying there for a while!

Big Fan should just close this thread. Plunkett and Fouts are better NFL QB's than Brady? OP should be banned for 1 month.

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We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Brady
Elway
Montana
Rodgers
Marino


I think in 10 years Rodgers is GOAT .

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So you haven't followed any of the arguments then?

Fouts stronger arm than Brady - check
Fouts better release than Brady - check
Fouts played during the heyday of the NFL against some of the best defenses ever - check
Fouts led league in passing for four years during NFL heyday '79-'82 - check (Tom Brady twice during '05 and '07)
Fouts had a great beard - check

Those two greats "needed" Stickum about as much as Jerry Rice needed Stickum, Tom Brady needed underinflated footballs and today's receivers need gloves.

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