sure you can. the patriots had lousy defenses and won their division on multiple occasions. so did the colts when they had manning.

That's not elite. It's overpowering offense. Which I would agree with on GB if Nelson wasn't dead.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
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You're trying too hard here man. I said I think they are a top 2 NFC team originally, and that New England is probably the only team you can confidently say is better right now. If you want to make the case that Seattle or some other team is better than Green Bay, the floor is yours. But if you disagree with me, disagree with what I actually wrote, not what you wanted me to write. Saying I think a team is among the best in the conference in Week 1 is nowhere near saying they are a lock for the Super Bowl.

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think about the context of the NFL. elite is in the conversation of contention of the playoffs and possibly the super bowl. teams that consistently win 10-11+ games each year are elite.

OK... fair enough. I will say that I don't see GB as elite. Hell... the division likely isn't theirs without Nelson. I mean Vikes might win the division... hell, I'd call that a toss up at this point.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

If you would like, I will give you 2-1 odds and take GB for winning the division. You can have the other three teams. You name the wager, if you want to.

I think you're way overrating how much Nelson's injury hurts them. I think it may drop them from like 12 wins to 11. They have a lot of other playmakers and should have a great running game this year to compliment Rodgers.

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11 wins... that's a pretty tight over/under.
Let me check out their schedule over the next week and we'll chat on this. 2 to 1 on a division is hard to turn down.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

No problem man.

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Listen to the river sing sweet songs
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I won't back down on them being or not being as the case may be, "elite".
I disagree with WZ... I don't buy that an 11 or 12 win team is elite. Meaning that there's not always an elite team every year. Maybe an "elite" team every couple two or three years. We talk elite we mean a 14 win or better team that's an obvious SB lock. How often does that happen? Elite isn't in my opinion a flexible, contextual term.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Literally never.

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Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

OK were making progress here. Elite to me means a team that's great on all three phases... not just the best team in the league or conference.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Truthfully, as much as I like to argue, I don't have a strong opinion on the semantics of elite. I think Green Bay is one of the better teams in the league this year, top 5/6 or whatever. I agree with you that in no way are they a special team or even have the potential of being some historically good team. Their best case scenario is 12-13 wins and a super bowl win over another team who is probably just about as good as them.

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Listen to the river sing sweet songs
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The board was better 3 weeks ago.

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You know what you were.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I meant before ff could hijack Bears threads.

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Cry me a river.

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Listen to the river sing sweet songs
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Point supported.

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Leash, please define "Elite NFL team".
Thanks.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

That's tough, but I would err toward your definition. A team that is clearly a favorite to win their conference unless it is a strange year that has multiple elite teams. This year, right now, I would say there are no elite teams. That could change though.

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IMO Elite in the context that it is usually applied means they are realistically a Super Bowl contender. Most "experts" believe they are.

As for the defense - the run D is horrible. However, the pass rush and secondary are sound. Given that most teams don't rely on or feature a running game like the Bears do this is less of a concern than it could be. Low to Mid-level overall D and top 5 offense will be enough to make the play-offs. Match-ups and home field will determine their fate.

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

One of the things that was most encouraging offensively today was the use of varied snap counts. It's a joke that they've never done it properly, but it has to make a big difference in the D-linemen's timing. And the occasional offsides here and there helps as well.

Baby steps.

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Matt Forte: "The mentality of this offense, which I'm proud of, is nobody had that stupid look on their face [when down 31-16] like before."

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Tough day for Jared Allen. Drew a penalty and blew contain against Rodgers all day.

Zero pass rush. Again.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The defense was "OK" until the last couple minutes. I'm not sure who was playing decent but they kept things under control. At least not laughable like last year. Nobody really stood out one way or other except for Ball who got torched several times.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Thats fucking awesome.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Maybe you need new glasses?

Bears third down efficiency: 11/16 - 64%
Fourth down efficiency: 2/3 - 66%

The problem was not sustaining drives today, but goal-line execution.

I have not watched the game yet but it was awesome to hear Jim Cornelison again. About 24 days to go!