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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:41 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
pittmike wrote:


Trust me. Later on the Cub fans will be calling and hanging Theo as they did Soriano on this. No one recalls ALL the Cub fans screaming WE MUST HAVE SORIANO.


Did.Not.Happen.



Bullshit.


2006

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:06 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
pittmike wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
pittmike wrote:


Trust me. Later on the Cub fans will be calling and hanging Theo as they did Soriano on this. No one recalls ALL the Cub fans screaming WE MUST HAVE SORIANO.


Did.Not.Happen.



Bullshit.


2006



Oh yes it did. I remember it well. I was on the radio arguing against signing Soriano and I was definitely in the minority of Cubs fans calling on the subject. I did not like being in the minority either. :cry:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:15 pm 
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IMU wrote:
I wanted Alfonso Soriano. I was happy when the Cubs signed him.

And he was a very good player for the Cubs. We've had this conversation on this board multiple times. Look at his first 5 years...hell, look at his 162 game averages. He was good.

There was far more to be upset about on those teams than Soriano.


The Soriano deal went as follows.

-Hendry makes a 5 year deal offer. No response yet
-Within 24 hours McDonough calls and asks what it will take to have Soriano sign TODAY.
-Sori's agent wants 2 more years on the deal.
-McDough says "Done" fly to Chicago right now.

I am far from a Hendry fan (Steak dinner boom) but that 7 year deal wasnt his mess.

But I think the Cubs expect year 6 to be a lost year for Lester, if they get 5 , I think they will be happy.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:18 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
IMU wrote:
I wanted Alfonso Soriano. I was happy when the Cubs signed him.

And he was a very good player for the Cubs. We've had this conversation on this board multiple times. Look at his first 5 years...hell, look at his 162 game averages. He was good.

There was far more to be upset about on those teams than Soriano.


The Soriano deal went as follows.

-Hendry makes a 5 year deal offer. No response yet
-Within 24 hours McDonough calls and asks what it will take to have Soriano sign TODAY.
-Sori's agent wants 2 more years on the deal.
-McDough says "Done" fly to Chicago right now.

I am far from a Hendry fan (Steak dinner boom) but that 7 year deal wasnt his mess.

But I think the Cubs expect year 6 to be a lost year for Lester, if they get 5 , I think they will be happy.


My point is not the technicalities of the deal. It is that he was a hot name. In that era cub fans screamed for every name available and the Soriano contract had them all crying at the end. This offseason it will be the same for another pitcher. Bet me.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:29 pm 
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The Cubs had all the money.

It was pre-2008 market crash and pre-the end of newspapers.

Why not try the Yankees model of buy everybody and see who is sticky?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:42 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
bigfan wrote:
IMU wrote:
I wanted Alfonso Soriano. I was happy when the Cubs signed him.

And he was a very good player for the Cubs. We've had this conversation on this board multiple times. Look at his first 5 years...hell, look at his 162 game averages. He was good.

There was far more to be upset about on those teams than Soriano.


The Soriano deal went as follows.

-Hendry makes a 5 year deal offer. No response yet
-Within 24 hours McDonough calls and asks what it will take to have Soriano sign TODAY.
-Sori's agent wants 2 more years on the deal.
-McDough says "Done" fly to Chicago right now.

I am far from a Hendry fan (Steak dinner boom) but that 7 year deal wasnt his mess.

But I think the Cubs expect year 6 to be a lost year for Lester, if they get 5 , I think they will be happy.


My point is not the technicalities of the deal. It is that he was a hot name. In that era cub fans screamed for every name available and the Soriano contract had them all crying at the end. This offseason it will be the same for another pitcher. Bet me.


Thanks to new revenue steams (scoreboards) as well as increased attendance (back over 3 million) they will have some extra money to spend. Yes, I expect them to sign a top of the rotation starter. If it is a younger guy like Price, it makes more sense. A guy like Greinke might be tempting to many fans to sign, but I think at his age, it would be foolish to sign him to a long term deal. Zimmerman and several other good options this offseason too. they will get a good one. Maybe not the top name, but another good one.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:48 am 
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pittmike wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
pittmike wrote:


Trust me. Later on the Cub fans will be calling and hanging Theo as they did Soriano on this. No one recalls ALL the Cub fans screaming WE MUST HAVE SORIANO.


Did.Not.Happen.



Bullshit.

mike honestly, some wanted Soriano. Some didnt. There was no screaming and many people were immediately scared off by the 8 years.


You start with a true premise and exaggerate it to a ridiculous point.


And btw, what is the point? That Cub fans wanted a 40-40 guy but then got mad when it didnt work out?

Sounds pretty standard for any team and free agent ever


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:50 am 
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pittmike wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
pittmike wrote:


Trust me. Later on the Cub fans will be calling and hanging Theo as they did Soriano on this. No one recalls ALL the Cub fans screaming WE MUST HAVE SORIANO.


Did.Not.Happen.



Bullshit.

good lord put down the bottle for once


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:12 am 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
If it is a younger guy like Price, it makes more sense. A guy like Greinke might be tempting to many fans to sign, but I think at his age, it would be foolish to sign him to a long term deal.


Price is 30. Greinke is 31.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:13 am 
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man of few opinions wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
If it is a younger guy like Price, it makes more sense. A guy like Greinke might be tempting to many fans to sign, but I think at his age, it would be foolish to sign him to a long term deal.


Price is 30. Greinke is 31.

:lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:26 am 
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To be fair, Greinke is turning 32 next month. Price just turned 30. But that still isn't even two full years.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:28 am 
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IMU wrote:
To be fair, Greinke is turning 32 next month. Price just turned 30. But that still isn't even two full years.

And Greinke has been around forever and seems like just yesterday Price was the young fireballer for the Rays


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:21 am 
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Disagree with this guy though


Why Jon Lester, Not Jake Arrieta, Should Be Cubs' Do-or-Die Wild Card Game Ace
By Jacob Shafer , Featured Columnist Sep 16, 2015

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Why Jon Lester, Not Jake Arrieta, Should Be Cubs' Do-or-Die Wild Card Game AceGene J. Puskar/Associated Press
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If the second game of the Chicago Cubs-Pittsburgh Pirates doubleheader Tuesday was a preview of the National League Wild Card Game, the Cubs will take it and smile.

Chicago got timely hits—including a two-out RBI single off Anthony Rizzo's bat and an RBI double from Dexter Fowler—and most of all a shutdown pitching performance by Jon Lester, who allowed one run, scattered five hits and struck out nine while twirling a complete game in the 2-1 victory.

But wait a minute, you may be asking: If that was a preview of the Wild Card Game, why was Lester on the hill? Surely if the Cubs end up in that do-or-die scenario, they'll call on Jake Arrieta, a Cy Young contender and the clear stud of the staff.

That's a fair point. Certainly the Cubs could pitch Arrieta, and no one would argue. But there is an argument to be made for Lester—so let's make it now.

Gene J. Puskar/Associated Press/Associated Press/Associated Press
After a rough start to the season, Lester has pitched like the guy the Cubs inked to a six-year, $155 million deal.
First, to set the stage: After splitting their twin bill (Pittsburgh took the first game, 5-4), the Pirates (87-57) and Cubs (83-61) remain in firm possession of the NL's two wild-card slots.

The race for the National League Central isn't over. As I recently highlighted, the next week will give us a flurry of action between the Cubs, Pirates and division-leading St. Louis Cardinals (90-54), who lead Pittsburgh by three games and Chicago by seven games entering play Wednesday.

But if the season ended today, the Cubs would play the Pirates at PNC Park with a trip to the National League Division Series on the line. And they should hand Lester the ball.

The first and most obvious argument in favor of the seasoned left-hander is his extensive postseason resume.

Whereas Arrieta has never pitched an inning past Game No. 162, Lester owns a sterling 2.57 ERA in 84 playoff innings. He won a pair of rings with the Boston Red Sox, in 2007 and 2013, and went 3-0 in those Fall Classics, yielding just a single run in 21 frames.

Yes, there is a blemish on his record. In last season's Wild Card Game, Lester—whom the Oakland A's acquired at the trade deadline for just such an occasion—surrendered six runs in a gut-wrenching loss to the Kansas City Royals.

That one notable hiccup aside, however, Lester has demonstrated repeatedly that he thrives in the October spotlight.

That big-game pedigree is one reason the Cubs handed Lester a six-year, $155 million deal this winter. He endowed a young, hungry team with a needed veteran presence.

Charles Rex Arbogast/Associated Press/Associated Press
If he skips the Wild Card Game, Arrieta could pitch twice in a best-of-five NLDS.
"This is what he does," Chicago skipper Joe Maddon said after Lester's gem, per Carrie Muskat and Tom Singer of MLB.com. "He likes pitching in big games in the latter part of the season. It's not a surprise."

And so we arrive at the second argument in favor of Lester pitching the Wild Card Game. After a rough start to his Cubs career, he's been performing like the guy who made three All-Star teams and twice finished in the top five in American League Cy Young balloting.

As April drew to a close, Lester's ERA was a cartoonish (in a bad way) 6.23. He's since whittled it down to 3.38 and has pitched at least seven innings and given up only one run in three of his last five starts.

"I always feel better the second half of the year, physically and with my stuff," Lester said, per the Chicago Tribune's Paul Sullivan.

Still, Arrieta is the team's undisputed ace. He leads the staff in ERA (1.99), innings pitched (199), strikeouts (204) and virtually every other meaningful category. Heck, Lester all but endorsed Arrieta for Wild Card Game duties, should it come to that.

"Everybody has an ego, and everyone wants to be that guy, but when it comes down to it, if he gives us the best chance to win that one-game playoff, I'll be on the top step cheering my butt off for him to do well," Lester said, per ESPN.com's Jesse Rogers.

Gene J. Puskar/Associated Press/Associated Press/Associated Press/Associated Press
Maddon has indicated he'll use Arrieta in a one-game playoff but also said pitching in big games "is what [Lester] does."
Now for the third and perhaps most compelling reason to pitch Lester over Arrieta: Arrieta would be available for Game 1 of the NLDS.

Yes, we're getting way ahead of ourselves by talking about playoff series with more than two weeks left in the regular season, when nothing has been decided for sure.

But bear with the hypothetical, if you will.

If Lester goes in the Wild Card Game, and the Cubs win, Arrieta could pitch twice in a best-of-five division series. And if the current standings hold, that division series would be against the Cardinals, whose pitching staff is deep and dangerous.

Who should start a potential Wild Card Game for the Cubs?
Jon Lester
Jake Arrieta
SUBMIT VOTE vote to see results
The other two current division leaders—the New York Mets and Los Angeles Dodgers—also have aces up their sleeves.

Holding Arrieta back in the Wild Card Game means he'll have more opportunities to pitch the Cubs toward the National League Championship Series (NLCS) and beyond.

There's an inherent risk, of course: If the alternative to Arrieta starting the one-game playoff was a vastly inferior pitcher, Chicago would have no choice but to expend Arrieta and hope for the best, a strategy that worked swimmingly for Madison Bumgarner and the San Francisco Giants in 2014.

Lester, though, isn't vastly inferior. When you factor in his decorated postseason past and recent success, you can almost squint and pretend he's not inferior at all.

Now, all of this could be a moot point, as Muskat reported:


Of course, "lined up to start" and "will undoubtedly start" aren't the same thing. There's time for Maddon and the Cubbies to change course.

The bottom line is this is a good problem to have: choosing between two superlative starters with different but equally compelling credentials. In the end, as Sullivan opined, "No one is overlooking the Cubs, who obviously have the talent and just need to play better in crunch time."

On Tuesday night, behind Lester, they did play better. Was it a preview of a coming attraction? We'll know soon enough.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:35 am 
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Its gotta be Arrietta. Ill also say that if he can keep his ERA in the 1.9 range and win 21, he will beat Grienke for Cy Young.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:41 am 
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He deserves MVP as well.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:12 am 
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That article is a good example of why Bleacher Report sucks


Hey ya know what? What if Lester started the playoff game?


Costanza: There ya go. There's your article


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:14 am 
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As Cubs fans, we should just be happy we have two pitchers good enough to have this conversation.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:21 am 
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IMU wrote:
As Cubs fans, we should just be happy we have two pitchers good enough to have this conversation.



Good for Lester but you have to win that one game. I'd go with Arrieta and have Lester ready to relieve if needed. Everything else doesn't matter as far as rotation against the cards if you lose.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:51 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Its gotta be Arrietta. Ill also say that if he can keep his ERA in the 1.9 range and win 21, he will beat Grienke for Cy Young.


I think there's a better chance of Arrieta finishing 3rd (to Kershaw) than there is for him beating Greinke (depending on the last few starts of course).

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:53 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Its gotta be Arrietta. Ill also say that if he can keep his ERA in the 1.9 range and win 21, he will beat Grienke for Cy Young.


I think there's a better chance of Arrieta finishing 3rd (to Kershaw) than there is for him beating Greinke (depending on the last few starts of course).

Arietta has the "never won it before" factor. They seem to like that. Like Kluber last year.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:04 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Its gotta be Arrietta. Ill also say that if he can keep his ERA in the 1.9 range and win 21, he will beat Grienke for Cy Young.


I think there's a better chance of Arrieta finishing 3rd (to Kershaw) than there is for him beating Greinke (depending on the last few starts of course).

Arietta has the "never won it before" factor. They seem to like that. Like Kluber last year.


You may be right, though I was going with the opposite: that the voters would go with the known entity of Kershaw. It's also possible Greinke and Kershaw "split the vote" (being on the same team), but that may just be wishful thinking.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:06 pm 
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I'm down to sign pretty much every big name. There isn't a salary cap and the Ricketts are filthy rich. Sign both Price and Grienke.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:08 pm 
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I hope they all win awards. It only drives the price up higher

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:08 pm 
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Hockey Gay wrote:
I'm down to sign pretty much every big name. There isn't a salary cap and the Ricketts are filthy rich. Sign both Price and Grienke.

I feel like the Red Sox are going to spend a lot on pitching this year (after the "Let's try having 5 #3starters" plan didnt work).

Then you have the always involved Yankees.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:16 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
pittmike wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
pittmike wrote:


Trust me. Later on the Cub fans will be calling and hanging Theo as they did Soriano on this. No one recalls ALL the Cub fans screaming WE MUST HAVE SORIANO.


Did.Not.Happen.



Bullshit.

good lord put down the bottle for once


Fans didn't want him.

The Tribune company had to have him at the time to enact their master plan of signing as many expensive, long-term contracts as they could to drive up the value of the team for sale. It was documented. Multiple times.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:19 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Its gotta be Arrietta. Ill also say that if he can keep his ERA in the 1.9 range and win 21, he will beat Grienke for Cy Young.


I think there's a better chance of Arrieta finishing 3rd (to Kershaw) than there is for him beating Greinke (depending on the last few starts of course).

Greinke and Kershaw will split a lot of voters. That helps Arrieta.

I still think Greinke has an edge.

Arrieta wins it if he gets to 21 wins though. Sadly, wins still influence cy young votes.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:17 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
I hope they all win awards. It only drives the price up higher



Yeah, while the Cubs are signing guys who are winning regular season awards, the Sox sign guys like LaRoche and Melky, who couldn't hit the first half and then began hitting only after they were already out of it. Oh, and that Eaton extension, how's that working out? the Cubs are going to have plenty of money pouring in and can afford it. Once they have the ballpark completely rebuilt as well as the plaza, the new TV deals and all the money coming in from the scoreboards.....they will be right there with the Dodgers and Yankees competing for top free agents when they want to. The disparity in both the spending and popularity of the 2 Chicago baseball teams will only increase. I will not be at all surprised if the Cubs more than double their attendance on the South side of town and the Sox become the red headed step-child in town as the Cubs only continue to improve and compete for (and win) Championships and the Sox remain mired in mediocrity or worse.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:59 am 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
[Oh, and that Eaton extension, how's that working out? .


It's working out pretty well.

Was this a test of weather you watch baseball?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:01 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
[Oh, and that Eaton extension, how's that working out? .


It's working out pretty well.

Was this a test of weather you watch baseball?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:13 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
pittmike wrote:


Trust me. Later on the Cub fans will be calling and hanging Theo as they did Soriano on this. No one recalls ALL the Cub fans screaming WE MUST HAVE SORIANO.


Did.Not.Happen.

seriously. That's one of the dumbest statements ever. Very few Cubs fans wanted Soriano after his issues in Washington. He was already viewed as a selfish player BEFORE he signed the huge deal. ALL of my Cubs friends hated the move. The Soriano love, if it existed, was in the minority.

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