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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:52 am 
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The income tax is a poor way to raise money. What most folks don't get is that the calculation of income in the corporate world is infinitely complex especially amid globalization (ever hear of unicap?). In addition, special interests carve out goodies for themselves. Thus, you have a system that is easily gamed, compliance is difficult to police, and it costs lots of money to file.

Then there is the perverse disincentive for work under an income tax system. You encourage spending over savings and investment. Thus taxing consumption is a much better way to go.

Now that leads us to all sorts of regressive tax problems. The most thoughtful solution is that you either exempt certain items from taxation such as food and medicine and/or you send rebate checks back to low income folks to neutralize their sales tax liability.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:53 am 
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Chus wrote:
denisdman wrote:
5) Christie advocated increased use of nuclear and solar as well as cap and trade schemes to reduce power plant pollution. He cited his own state as improving in that area.


Yeah, no.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html



Feel free to lay out your top 10 wishlist from the Dems. Then I'll cherry pick and bash a few.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:53 am 
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Chus wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
I really like Ben Carson. He is the most likable & believable of all of the candidates...& he supports a version of the flat tax that he calls fair tax.


Again with the flat tax. This idea has been dismantled here many times, and by virtually all economists. You really should stop.


So do we want the status quo or do we want change?

A flat tax helps the middle class, & forces the 1% and corporations to pay more taxes.

Then again, maybe you're right & the current system is great & any talk of tax simplification & reform is crazy.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:54 am 
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Rubio has been my favorite as well since he announced. I think he helped himself tremendously last night.

Neither Carson or Trump had a good night. It's dumbfounding how popular Trump is. He literally has described no policy opinions other than 'great deals' and 'winning.'. Eventually that will catch up to him and he'll be done.

Bush is going to be there in the long run because he has lots of friends in the GOP and Washington.

Ted Cruz is creepy, weird and one of the most disingenuous politicians I've ever seen.

Carly obviously had a great night as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:56 am 
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Scorehead wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
ng & I never tire of hearing or reading about them. I would love to see this as the ticket.

Do you believe in Evolution, SH?


It seems logical to me that this is how Man came about.

It troubles me that Carson thinks it's a myth[/quote]

As I have said before, I vote on economic issues. I don't rank a politicians religious thoughts very high on my priority list of issues. Lets face it, Carson's thoughts on evolution really don't matter or affect any of us. There have been many good presidents who didnt believe in evolution. It's a non issue for me.[/quote]

So it's a negative that Carson has faith? In a country that values religious freedom, how can that possibly be considered a negative?

It would trouble me more to vote for someone that has no moral compass.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:57 am 
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denisdman wrote:
The income tax is a poor way to raise money. What most folks don't get is that the calculation of income in the corporate world is infinitely complex especially amid globalization (ever hear of unicap?). In addition, special interests carve out goodies for themselves. Thus, you have a system that is easily gamed, compliance is difficult to police, and it costs lots of money to file.

Then there is the perverse disincentive for work under an income tax system. You encourage spending over savings and investment. Thus taxing consumption is a much better way to go.

Now that leads us to all sorts of regressive tax problems. The most thoughtful solution is that you either exempt certain items from taxation such as food and medicine and/or you send rebate checks back to low income folks to neutralize their sales tax liability.


Denis, What do you think about Huckabee's idea to get rid of income tax & replace it with a consumption tax?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:01 am 
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Do you have the details? I haven't seen them. I would be in favor of a VAT system as long as we repeal the income tax amendment. We don't want to go the European route of having both.


The income tax system is so perverse. Take the much beloved mortgage interest deduction. It causes people to buy too big of a home. It favors buyers of homes over renters, when that decision should be made on the underlying economics. It favors the middle class and wealthy over the poor for no reason. It causes marginal tax rates to be higher than they should. It drives up home values beyond what they should cost, which is great when you own a home but tough when you try to buy your first home.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:05 am 
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Northside_Dan wrote:
Ted Cruz is creepy, weird and one of the most disingenuous politicians I've ever seen.


Last night was the first time I ever saw Ted. Had the exact same impression.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:09 am 
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Carson is Jimmy Carter from 1975.

Everyone hated all politicians after Watergate. Here comes this soft-spoken, smart guy (nuclear navy). He'll know what to do.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:11 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Chus wrote:
denisdman wrote:
5) Christie advocated increased use of nuclear and solar as well as cap and trade schemes to reduce power plant pollution. He cited his own state as improving in that area.


Yeah, no.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html



Feel free to lay out your top 10 wishlist from the Dems. Then I'll cherry pick and bash a few.


Gee, I'm sorry for pointing out there is a lot of lip service coming from your guys. Say one thing, do another.

I'm on Team Bernie

1. Try to slow down climate change (as opposed to being in complete denial).
2. Overturn Citizens United.
3. A sensible immigration policy, not mass deportations and wall building.
4. Stop this ridiculous battle against gays and women (birth control, abortions, PP) There is no war on Christians.
5. Hold the banks accountable for their actions.
6. Legalize weed.
7. Diplomacy, rather than war mongering.
8. Making sure that full time workers can feed their family without gov't assistance (a.k.a. hating job creators).
9. Fight racial inequality and police brutality
10. Make education more affordable

Of course, he can't wave a magic wand and fix everything, but being aware of these problems is a good start. It's certainly a better start than living in the fantasy land where your guys reside.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:12 am 
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denisdman wrote:
So it's a negative that Carson has faith? In a country that values religious freedom, how can that possibly be considered a negative?

It would trouble me more to vote for someone that has no moral compass.

He's a brain surgeon and apparently a well respected one. I think he has a clear understanding of science. I don't buy his evolution take, or any politician that uses that opinion. I know they're just using it to get votes. I would expect a chiropractor to hold crackpot ideals, not a brain surgeon.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:14 am 
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denisdman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:

What new ideas did you hear last night that you liked?


I am not sure there is much in the realm of new in the political arena. Here is what I liked.

1) I appreciated Kasich's approach to the Iran Agreement. He is willing to give it a chance and only reimpose sanctions if they violated the treaty.
2) I thought Ran Paul was spot on with the 10th Amendment and State's Rights including drug legalization.
3) There are several tax plans on the table to either move to a deduction less flat tax or a consumption based tax.
4) Several folks recognized a few problems in the immigration system. It was stated that 40% of the "illegal" problem is from folks overstaying visas. Clearly we need a new regime for folks coming legally but overstaying.
5) Christie advocated increased use of nuclear and solar as well as cap and trade schemes to reduce power plant pollution. He cited his own state as improving in that area.
6) Many folks agreed that we need to balance the budget and address the ever growing $18T debt problem. Social security fixes were mentioned by Christie.
7) I liked the debate about the role of the courts and the rule of law. Some argued for ignoring the courts, which of course we should not do. Others stood up and basically said issues like gay marriage are now settled law and we should move on. That was nice to see.
8) Most candidates agreed that we need a new approach to dealing with non violent offenders. That will reduce the amount of people in jail.
9) Everyone recognized our failed approach to ISIS and Syria. I lean toward the approach of having a strong military but rarely using it, meaning dialogue with our enemies while projecting power. I would not want boots on the ground, and lean toward candidates who take a cautious approach to such matters.
10) I do not like the government shutdown idea over "petty" matters. Some want to shut it down again, while others talked about being restrained and pragmatic about budget issues.

There's my top 10. I watch the entirety of both debates.

Most of that is stuff the Dems agree with. I was looking for something in the realm of a GOP idea that no liberal would like. (as you pointed out)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:14 am 
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Scorehead wrote:
So do we want the status quo or do we want change?


Everything is balck and white with you. The current tax system can be changed without a bad idea like a flat tax.

Scorehead wrote:
A flat tax helps the middle class, & forces the 1% and corporations to pay more taxes.


Not according to most economists.

Scorehead wrote:
Then again, maybe you're right & the current system is great & any talk of tax simplification & reform is crazy.


That's a very childish response.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:14 am 
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I just checked numerous post debate polls, & Jeb is still at 3 or 4% in all of them & he is behind Paul in most of them. Huckabee, Cruz, Walker, Christie & Kasich are all below 2%.

Right now it looks like this:

Trump
Carly
Rubio
Carson or Paul

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:15 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Dan Bernstein ‏@dan_bernstein 13h13 hours ago
Trump has been powered by uneducated whites, and could be losing them tonight. He can't sustain being a populist and an essential elitist.
19 retweets 28 favorites


Just like the Score.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:15 am 
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Kasich is by far the best candidate. I've been telling you people about him for years. Hillary will easily win if he isn't the nominee.

Scorehead is clueless once again. Another low information voter.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:15 am 
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Northside_Dan wrote:
Ted Cruz is creepy, weird and one of the most disingenuous politicians I've ever seen.


That's a good description. The creepiest part about him, is his tone when he speaks.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:19 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Scorehead wrote:

As I have said before, I vote on economic issues. I don't rank a politicians religious thoughts very high on my priority list of issues. Lets face it, Carson's thoughts on evolution really don't matter or affect any of us. There have been many good presidents who didnt believe in evolution. It's a non issue for me.


So it's a negative that Carson has faith? In a country that values religious freedom, how can that possibly be considered a negative?

It would trouble me more to vote for someone that has no moral compass.

Wow, that's quite a spin.

First of all, I said nothing about Faith. Having faith or believing in a God and understanding evolution are not mutually exclusive.

Secondly, your premise suggests that religion is the only way to have a moral compass. That's pretty silly. Unless you think every atheist in the world has no moral compass?

Its not about evolution or religion, denying evolution speaks to his thought process.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:21 am 
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Scorehead wrote:


Right now it looks like this:

Trump
Carly
Rubio
Carson or Paul

All bad

Not Huckabee or Jebbie bad, but still really freaking bad.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:22 am 
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Nas wrote:
Kasich is by far the best candidate. I've been telling you people about him for years. Hillary will easily win if he isn't the nominee.

Scorehead is clueless once again. Another low information voter.


I like Kasich a lot, but right now only 2% think he is the best candidate. He has a lot of work to do.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:31 am 
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Chus wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Chus wrote:
denisdman wrote:
5) Christie advocated increased use of nuclear and solar as well as cap and trade schemes to reduce power plant pollution. He cited his own state as improving in that area.


Yeah, no.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html



Feel free to lay out your top 10 wishlist from the Dems. Then I'll cherry pick and bash a few.


Gee, I'm sorry for pointing out there is a lot of lip service coming from your guys. Say one thing, do another.

I'm on Team Bernie

1. Try to slow down climate change (as opposed to being in complete denial).
2. Overturn Citizens United.
3. A sensible immigration policy, not mass deportations and wall building.
4. Stop this ridiculous battle against gays and women (birth control, abortions, PP) There is no war on Christians.
5. Hold the banks accountable for their actions.
6. Legalize weed.
7. Diplomacy, rather than war mongering.
8. Making sure that full time workers can feed their family without gov't assistance (a.k.a. hating job creators).
9. Fight racial inequality and police brutality
10. Make education more affordable

Of course, he can't wave a magic wand and fix everything, but being aware of these problems is a good start. It's certainly a better start than living in the fantasy land where your guys reside.





Solid stuff Chus .. I would add

Cut the military budget in half.
Institute a carbon tax

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:39 am 
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Bernie Sanders is full of shit when it comes to most of that stuff though. He knows he can just say whatever because he'll never have to get it done. I think Ron Paul at least believed what he said. I don't think Bernie Sanders does. I would vote for Donald Trump before I voted for him.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:47 am 
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Change the "born here" law and draft Arnold.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:59 am 
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Nas wrote:
Bernie Sanders is full of shit when it comes to most of that stuff though. He knows he can just say whatever because he'll never have to get it done. I think Ron Paul at least believed what he said. I don't think Bernie Sanders does. I would vote for Donald Trump before I voted for him.

Imo, your last sentence undermines any legitimate criticism of Bernie you could offer.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:00 pm 
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jimmypasta wrote:
Change the "born here" law and draft Arnold.

No

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:07 pm 
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jimmypasta wrote:
Change the "born here" law and draft Arnold.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:10 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:11 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:12 pm 
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Kasich looks like he is constipated.

Cruz sounds like he inhaled helium before speaking.

Christie was having a hard time standing for that long.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:16 pm 
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