I need a judges ruling....

When we talk "Immigration" are we meaning legal immigration or does it now encompass illegal immigration?

There used to be a pretty set dividing line.

It troubles me that Carson thinks it's a myth[/quote]

As I have said before, I vote on economic issues. I don't rank a politicians religious thoughts very high on my priority list of issues. Lets face it, Carson's thoughts on evolution really don't matter or affect any of us. There have been many good presidents who didnt believe in evolution. It's a non issue for me.[/quote]
The President of the United States' belief in evolution in this day and age doesn't matter to you? Particularly when he is a Dr.? That's beyond the pale.

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Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.- JD Vance
If you committed violence on that day, obviously, you shouldn’t be pardoned.- JD Vance on the J-6 insurrectionists

Nas - had you ever heard of Sanders before this election cycle? He's espoused the same views for years. He was a regular on talk radio and nothing has changed. You can disagree with his positions, but he is the most legitimate (along possibly with Paul) in this cast of clowns.

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Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.- JD Vance
If you committed violence on that day, obviously, you shouldn’t be pardoned.- JD Vance on the J-6 insurrectionists

It's if we should have an immigration policy at all besides "Come on in!" and if you think we should then you are a racist.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

for once I agree with SH. Why do you say that?

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Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.- JD Vance
If you committed violence on that day, obviously, you shouldn’t be pardoned.- JD Vance on the J-6 insurrectionists

I don't see anyone in this thread arguing for the status quo. But it's not the businesses who hire illegal immigrants that are the problem. We need to make it significantly easier to become a legal citizen of this country. Any "solution" to the illegal immigration "problem" that does not incorporate that will be bound to fail.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Even allowing for exaggeration, nobody is suggesting anything close to this.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

This exactly.

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Elections have consequences.

So then you agree with me?

The businesses are part of the problem though. They are literally violating the law.

I think what we all want is fair and legal immigration. Of course that would mean less from some countries and more from other countries but that is exactly how it should be.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

kinda both. theyre not talking about the current legal process for immigrants to come over and gain citizenship... theyre debating on what to do with the illegals already here, most notably the ones who have had children here so the kids are actually american citizens. theres too many to just say "fuck it, deport them all". not only would that be inhumane, it would cost hundreds of billions of dollars to do (according to jeb bush). this is because theyre not going to leave voluntarily, you would have to round them up and send them over the boarder.

so they are trying to debate a way to let them stay but go through a legal process to do so... and they make it clear they want them to stay to work in agriculture but not be citizens (and not have any american rights... this is directly quoting them from last night!)

the other part of the debate is what to do to keep more from coming in illegally. we already spend 200 billion a year they say to protect the boarders. last night they were talking about tripling that budget, while making fun of trump for wanting to build a fence because it would be too expensive.

my take is let any illegal without ANY violent crimes on their record stay. who cares, this is what this country is all about, its a melting pot. but make them apply for the citizenship process, one that would require twice as much time to get citizenship as it would if they came here legally... but if they came here illegally and theyre caught for a violent crime, deport them and never allow them to gain citizenship, ever.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

But you have to admit that the manner in which the Republican party come at the issue never really seems to be about policy, but is more like an English football firm whipping themselves and their followers into a jingoistic frenzy before taking to the streets to hold a boot party on some Sri Lankan immigrants.

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Freedom is our Strength.

Exactly. The operative word here is "illegal". It isn't fair to those immigrants who go through the normal legal process to get here.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

So that's your concern? Fairness?

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Freedom is our Strength.

I am almost certain that there was a time in which you argued that our borders should be open and welcoming to anyone who wants to come here.

...and there are plenty of people who say "illegal immigration" = "Mexicans". Well, if you are against illegal immigration, that means you are also against Mexicans.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

We spend most of our time on here talking about how stupid our politicians are. So yes, they are bad at this too.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Rick, remember who you're talking to here. I literally violate the law daily, so I'm not concerned about that without context.

It sounds like we agree for the most part, but I still don't understand how you say businesses are a big part of the problem. They are a very tiny part of the problem. Our immigration policy is by far the biggest problem and cause of any of this.

And I use the word problem generously here, because I also don't currently think illegal immigration is really a problem in our country. There's several more issues that are significantly more important.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

In the interest of national security, we should probably enforce & strengthen immigration laws to insure that ISIS & terrorists aren't crossing the borders.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Again, I agree with SH. (Add to the list of thing I never thought I'd write)

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Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.- JD Vance
If you committed violence on that day, obviously, you shouldn’t be pardoned.- JD Vance on the J-6 insurrectionists

Now you have done it. Resorting to scare tactics.

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Elections have consequences.

I still feel that way, for the most part. Not literally just walk on in, but it should be very easy to become a legal citizen if you desire to do so and do not have a criminal history from where you are coming from. And even though we very much disagree on this, I don't believe I have ever come close to implying you are a racist, and I don't think anyone else has either.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Yup, to both American citizens and those who wish to come here legally instead of violating the supposed standards of entry.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yes. I've known who he was for the last decade

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

There are plenty of people who think "against illegal immigration" = "racist".

I'd be happy to let legal immigrants come here and work but we aren't exactly living in a time where jobs are plentiful, and it is only going to get worse with automation and other jobs being replaced by non-humans.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Walker?

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Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.- JD Vance
If you committed violence on that day, obviously, you shouldn’t be pardoned.- JD Vance on the J-6 insurrectionists

Sanders socialist credentials are legit. He has truly been known as one of the more radical guys found in Congress for yrs. He is not some newly transformed socialist guy preaching income inequality because it is somehow fashionable.

There is a McGovern like appeal to Sanders that doesn't bode well for Democrats. I see a lot of young, idealistic types at his rallies. I haven't checked for each and every rally but the ones I have seen are dominated by young adults. The problem with that is that they don't tend to vote.

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He means that the total number of people who support the candidates who are polling under 2% isn't enough to make up for Trumps lead, but I think it might be closer that some might think. I just cant believe that this jagoff can hang on treating people with no respect or dignity & with zero knowledge of foreign policy, & as the republican ranks thin he will crash & burn.
At least this is what I am hoping happens.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

If you gave Jeb the support of ALL the candidates polling at less than 2% Trump would still have a huge lead. Just basic math.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

BRick is in favor of a $15 minimum wage so that shouldn't be a problem.

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Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.- JD Vance
If you committed violence on that day, obviously, you shouldn’t be pardoned.- JD Vance on the J-6 insurrectionists

I don't think that matters. I understand why you would disagree. If a man wants to come here and work, I believe we should let him come and compete in the job market. If not, then we should at least be a bit more honest with who we are as a country, and what ideals we stand for, and probably change the inscription on the Statue of Liberty as well.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Well it isn't that simple, but yea, thats part of it.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan