In the NBA, you really can't tank and get guaranteed high drafts. Course you're more likely to... but in the other leagues, there's no draft lottery.

Could he be on to something here? Should more leagues run a lottery system to avoid the tankers?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

While Picking a high draft in MLB helps, they are far from the NBA Impact in 1 of 5 guys.

I think the previous 5 years of both MLB teams in this city should show you that just losing for 5 years is not the sole answer, because one of them is coming out of the tailspin with a future. The other is still serving bacon on a stick as the primary prize.

Also, please use the Bears as example A of 5 years of losing...what did that get us? THIS MESS?

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

The Sox haven't lost for 5 years. They've lost for 3 years, and they are already building a nice farm system even without counting Rodon.

We really don't have to make this more difficult than it is. The Cubs had more hits than most but losing for 5 straight years is the best way to build yourself into a championship contender. It doesn't always work and sometimes it takes longer but the results here are clear for teams who need to rebuild.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

There is no best way, these things are dynamic.

Every league gives the worst team the top draft pick in hopes of creating parity and being cyclical. The whole teams rising from the bottom on the strength of draft picks is not new.

So you agree with jimmy then that the rebuilding didn't need to lose like it did and probably shouldn't have wasted 5 years if it wasn't the best way?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

We don't always see eye to eye, but this is spot on. My preferred way is drafting and development, but we've seen all sorts of successful strategies. Even with the Cubs, you have a big free agent signing in Lester and nice trades for Arrieta and Rizzo as the main cogs in their current success.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

What also makes baseball different is they basically let you own a player for a decade or more right out of high school even if they can't play on your MLB roster for years. Only hockey also has a legit minor league system but it doesn't really seem to factor in quite as much as most of the elite players seem to get pulled up pretty quickly.

The NFL and NBA do not have a minor league system worth anything.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Oh Rick, you lost this one...

and Ya know when the Sox have bad years....like this one...and the reason is always 'Well sometimes it just happens" and its never "We just stink, beause we picked the wrong guys"

Well 4 of the last 5 years they have been below .500, so maybe that one year of 85 wins was just a "hey it just happened"?

Anyway to build a team that will consistantly get to the playoffs is the best way. Will they consistantly get to the playoffs for years to come? Maybe, but its the way to start.

I am 100% fine with what the Cubs have done and the only ones I see that arent are Sox fans, Jimmypasta and Murph. That's your all "Self hating" team.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Im on record as saying they should have been contending for a WC last year and a title this year.

But Epstein and Hoyer only had 3 of those years. Even with the losing the 2 years prior, Hendry was acquiring guys who wouldnt be part of the future for them and you cant put those two years on them.

There is nothing winning or losing here.

There are two options.
1) Losing 5 straight years was the best option to rebuild.
2) jimmy being upset about losing 5 straight years is a valid opinion to have.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Wrong people making the personnel hires. Now they can sit and watch their cash cow suck even longer because of their mistakes.

Ok, so you agree with jimmy.

Denying what Theo inherited is bad too. At a minimum, the last losing season of Hendry was helpful to Theo.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Always

I wanted to chase a WC as well last year. Just to get a taste of winning, plus I also felt losing helps dig a hole. Makes it harder and harder to turn things around. Yet, they sure have done an OK job.

Despite the unreal "Cowards" talking about "The past", I am looking forward because "This too shall pass'

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

You're twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to frame things so that Cub fans look bad somehow.

You attempting to attribute a losing season to Epstein before he got here is hilarious.

This is your fallback when you have no answer.

It is true though. jimmy is either right or wrong. If he is wrong, then Theo chose the best option to rebuild. If he is right, then Theo could have, and should have, chosen a better option which had them winning quicker.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It isn't about looking bad. This is about a bunch of people arguing with me last week that losing 5 straight seasons is the best way to rebuild based on a bunch of mlb teams, and then suddenly jimmy saying that they shouldn't have done that and then a bunch of people saying "jimmy, you idiot, the Cubs did it the right way and are setup great".
Are you saying that those two years of losing didn't give him a head start on a rebuild?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No, its not.

It's an absolutely perfect summation of how you argue about everything. You attempt to force people into a yes/no or black/white definitions in pretty much every argument as a means of control.

As usual, the answer is in the middle of your wildly polar opposite options. Losing for a few years to rebuild was probably the best way to rebuild but it probably took a little longer than it had to.

There are two options.

Respond or don't.

Is jimmy right or wrong? What other option is there?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Every team and situation is different so your initial argument is flawed


He got one nice draft pick. The previous year the Garza trade set them back. Had they not made the Garza trade, they would have been in way better position so no that year didnt help them.

Jimmy is wrong to be angry about it. It is how you do a complete rebuild in the MLB.
A complete top down rebuild takes 4 to 5 years.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

There are two options.

Respond or don't.

Is jimmy right or wrong? What other option is there?[/quote]
Are you attempting to define if a person's feeling of annoyance was correct? That's so you.


Every Cub fan has the right to be annoyed at anything until they win. The losing may have been needed and understandably annoying to Jimmy at the same time.

No,I am not on anything.


Say no to Drugs

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Well then we might as well not talk about anything.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That's fair, so why are so many people attacking jimmy?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Part of the "plan" that used to set me off is the dumping of SP at the All-Star break. I didn't mind it IF they acquired some major league ready rookies in return. It seemed like he was always acquiring guys that would be ready in 2 or 3 years. The future always seemed "down the road" for these Cubs. Even now,Theo's apologists walk around telling everybody: "This is a year early",which in turn sets up the "It's OK we lost,wait till next year."

Next year might never come.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Hendry's way of building a "winner" left the team old, overpaid and with a horseshit farm system. No thanks.

Probably because all his suggestions for what they should have done have been terrible. (like getting rid of Rizzo because they had LaHair)

I think the Cubs farm system under Hendry was trying to develop pitching and had some success.

Theo's plan seems like there is no viable starting pitching in the farm system after 4 seasons. Somebody like IMU might know differently,but I haven't read much about help from the minors for SP.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

So where are the pitchers Hendry drafted?

Shark was great because Theo traded him for Russell. Chris Archer, who was traded by Hendry in another "win now" move. Not sure who else. That's 2 guys in 8 years. Has a Angelo vibe to it, doesn't it?