Dude, our opinions on everything are claptrap.

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Someone's are.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I've changed my mind.
JORR is right. He is clearly out ahead of all 30 MLB teams, managers, GM's and front office personnel. He's got it.
Baseball has wasted BILLIONS of dollars on managers over the decades. Centuries.

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You have to love him saying that managers themselves say that their job is pointless.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

It seems that in most cases managers are good when their players are good. And the same holds true for the opposite.

I think a manager's influence can be more pronounced with a young team.

But JORR is right that managers are good until they start losing. Then they're IDIOTS and need to be fired.

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JORRs point was that managers have no effect on a team winning or losing. JORR later said that managers are good or bad based on their players.

I have said over and over that Dusty was largely responsible for the Cubs 2003 collapse. Leaving prior in too long. Not seeing his team melting down after the bartman ball and calling a meeting to chill everyone out.

That team had all the pieces to win that series and didn't because of old fucko Dusty.

You want to see what kind of out of control shit a baseball team becomes without management check out the last month of the Cubs 2004 campaign.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

This could be true for any coach of any team on any level in any sport.

But, if coaches don't matter, nobody should ever complain about coaching. At any level. Right?

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But public opinion is typically wrong. We are discussing an admittedly subjective subject with people who follow baseball. We may all be wrong, but arguing that managers/coaches/leaders don't have an impact is the wrong way to get at the argument.

The argument should really be that fans are fickle and have no idea how to evaluate a manager. That argument is still somewhat wrong, but it's at least a defensible position.

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Probably not. But we're idiots too.

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Sure.

Fans are often dopes.

Trying to quantify how good or bad a manager is is a fruitless endeavor.

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I could get on board with that.

Robin Ventura was unfairly judged then, yes?

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Probably.

I still want him gone though.

And I am an idiot.

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We accept your apology.

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I don't like you very much.

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We get that a lot. We are a persecuted group.

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I know how to calculate a manager's effectiveness but I can't tell you guys how it's done. Anyways, Maddon is responsible for 14 extra wins this year. Great manager and a leader of men.

Do the zoo animals get credit for any wins?

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No. Don't be stupid.

I don't hate you.

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Hockey Gay is a pillar of the Cubs community.

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You are the master of the obvious.

Coaches matter immensely in football. Coaches matter a lot in basketball. Those sports aren't baseball.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

That's how I feel about him. After they're under .500 next year it will be the only 4 year stretch (besides '86-'89) since the 40s where they had four losing seasons in a row. Someone has to pay for that. And it shouldn't be Mark Parent.

EDIT: It shouldn't just be Mark Parent.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Not true. I'm sure there are many topics upon which you have good, educated, and valid opinions. I'm sure even Darkside has a few good opinions. I won't argue with him about telephone systems.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

The argument is that way too much is made of managers. If we don't know what effect they have, why are some of us talking about them as if some are better than others? The person who says one manager is good and another is bad without being able to say why is the guy who is the moron.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don