Here's an example of bad managing... and I've said this several time on the board...
The bartman game.
Dusty literally sat there watching it all fall apart. Did noting while alou had his temper tantrum. Ok. Then... does nothing when Gonzalez boots the ball. This is where he should have come out. Had a meeting on the mound. Chilled everyone out. His team was losing it. Probably should have made a pitching change. But he did nothing.
I think that inning was terrible managing. and it cost them the series.

There's no statistic for that. I know that. But that's not good management.

However he is the league leader in chewing a toothpick while watching his team shit itself.

Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.

And if he had done that and Dave Veres had come in and blown the fucking game you'd be calling him a bad manager for taking Prior out of a two hitter.

Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.

I don't believe you thought he was a bad manager when he came to the Cubs.

Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.

I don't believe you thought he was a bad manager when he came to the Cubs.

Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.

Airing of the grievances next year at Lakemoor Fest.

Look a bad manager can luck into wins and a good manager will lose games. We know this.

Let me ask you jorr... would you prefer Maddon over ventura if you could trade?

But you're getting to my point right there. The difference between the greatest most genius super manager of all time the worst dumbest most horrible one is so small it doesn't merit mention. Of course, if a guy makes a questionable decision in a playoff game while running your favorite team, it's going to stand out for you and you'll probably hate him. I hate Ventura a lot of the time. But I also understand that hatred is mostly irrational and emotional.

Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.

. But if they start off poorly, I'll want him gone once again.

Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.

To continue picking on Dusty, who I think was a terrible manager, at least for the Cubs, September 2004 was a month long example of bad managing. Maybe noting quantifiable or specific other than he allowed that team to run wild. Pitcher's calling out announcers? He had no control over those bozos and it showed up in the L column.

Laurence Holmes is a fucking weirdo, a nerd in denial, and a wannabe. Not a very good radio host either.

I remember disagreeing with a lot of Dustys' moves..but he threw Estes in the play in game n won..I was certain Estes would get shelled.. He was a better manager than Lou. He also got pantsed by Mceon in that series.

Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.

Baseball is an American game.

Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.

Here's an example of bad managing... and I've said this several time on the board...
The bartman game.
Dusty literally sat there watching it all fall apart. Did noting while alou had his temper tantrum. Ok. Then... does nothing when Gonzalez boots the ball. This is where he should have come out. Had a meeting on the mound. Chilled everyone out. His team was losing it. Probably should have made a pitching change. But he did nothing.
I think that inning was terrible managing. and it cost them the series.

There's no statistic for that. I know that. But that's not good management.

However he is the league leader in chewing a toothpick while watching his team shit itself.

C'mon, dude.

He's not a true Yankee. How could you possibly play so many seasons in pinstripes without winning a championship?

You mean as a manager? I think he knows baseball as well as Joe Maddon. At times Maddon may have a team that gets fired up by flamingos. At other times he might have a team that is annoyed by them. I think the same thing goes for Mattingly or anyone else and their particular styles and/or shtick.

Some people might say they good manger is the guy who adjusts to his personnel. But that guy doesn't really exist. Baseball is an American game and a traditional game and American management style is traditionally top down. It's the players that are expected to conform to the rules laid out by a manager. And a guy who tries another way will eventually, if not immediately, be seen as weak.

I've never managed a game in my life, but if I can send Kershaw and Greinke out every five days, my team is gonna win a bunch of ballgames.

Why?

And if you hate Ventura small ball approach you're kind of saying his management matters.... aren't you?

Fair enough.

And what do you make of Gibbons' use of David Price earlier today? Don't you think that was a bad managerial move that hurt the team?

I remember disagreeing with a lot of Dustys' moves..but he threw Estes in the play in game n won..I was certain Estes would get shelled.. He was a better manager than Lou. He also got pantsed by Mceon in that series.

Yes he did. Were the Marlins a better team? No.

could've used you years ago when i got into this argument with TM and a few other sox fans. not only were the marlins supposedly the better team, but the cubs were meant to melt down because they were inferior.

They were both very talented teams, but I think Florida proved to have a deeper roster and more clutch performances...and yes, Jack McKeon out-managed Dusty Baker. Take a look at that Marlins roster again....it was a damn good team and I'd say they had more players than the Cubs with continued success following 2003.

JORR's list "don't matter" is going to the extreme. i think it's safe to say there's thins that are "overvalued" and "overrated". Many of JORR's I agree or overvalued:
1) Managers
2) 1B Defense

Can I also add LH/RH pitching matchups?

They were both very talented teams, but I think Florida proved to have a deeper roster and more clutch performances...and yes, Jack McKeon out-managed Dusty Baker. Take a look at that Marlins roster again....it was a damn good team and I'd say they had more players than the Cubs with continued success following 2003.

JORR's list "don't matter" is going to the extreme. i think it's safe to say there's thins that are "overvalued" and "overrated". Many of JORR's I agree or overvalued:
1) Managers
2) 1B Defense

Can I also add LH/RH pitching matchups?