Hey Mac,

Here's your Top 10 "Cap Values" for the WR position for 2006:

1 Andre Johnson: $9.8Mil
2 Randy Moss: 9.5Mil
3 Torry Holt: 7.4Mil
4 Braylon Edwards: 7.3Mil
5 Chad Johnson: 7.1Mil
6 Rod Smith: 7.1Mil
7 Laveranues Coles: 7.0Mil
8 Terrell Owens: 6.7Mil
9 Marvin Harrison: 6.4Mil
10 Amani Toomer: 6.4Mil

I don't think Berrian is worthy of top ten pay, but he's certainly worth more to the Bears than Rod Smith, Laveranues Coles and Amani Toomer are to their respective teams right now.

For what it's worth Moose Muhammad is 13th on the list at 5.5 Million

Linkage

Don't try sorting by the base pay, as the web page sucks. They must love LBs.

And before you ask, I have NO idea who David Anderson is on the Texans. I'm sure that's a typo.

Not to be a pud but why did you start a new thread Gid? This could have been put in the Berrian thread.

Anyways, Moose needs to be a cap casualty this off season. In addition to a couple o-linemen.

IMO Berrian value is in the 5m range.

Here's the Bears current cap position.

Right now we're at 108 of 109m. That's after signing big contracts this year to Briggs, Vasher, and Tillman.

The cap goes up to 116m next season.

Here's the list of guys I'd like to cut to save on cap.
Archuletta 2.3m (there might be a cap hit if he's cut???)
Benson 3.4m
Bradly 1m
Fred Miller 5.7m ouch
Muhammad 5.2m

That's 17.6m in additional cap space.

I'm hoping we give Brown 1 more chance
Mike Brown 3.1m

btw... anyone who thinks the Bears are cheap need to get out of the 80's and 90's.

Should I open another thread to tell you that if it weren't for the salary cap, the Bears would be one of the cheapest in the league?

They consistently have some of the lowest paid coaches in the NFL and only when Lovie (and Jauron a few years ago) have had plenty of leverage have the McCaskeys let the money go to the coaches.

There were three assistant coaches making more money than Lovie Smith made last year.

The McCaskeys ARE cheap.

Yes you can open another thread to discuss the Bears "cheapness" but consider the following...

- New stadium
- Resigning good coaches (Love, and Dave Toub (ST coach)
- Resigning the best GM we’ve ever had, through 2013
- letting go average coaches (Rivera)
- Adding depth to QB & DLine
- Long term contracts to core players (only 2 starters in the last two years became free agents (Hunter Hillenmeyer ‘06 (signed), Briggs ‘07).
- New indoor practice facility. (named after Walter)
- New training camp. (I’m not sure how much of an upgrade this was… at least camp is no longer behind enemy lines )
- 108 of 109m cap space spent 2007.

My responses are in blue. Just like the blue (and orange) Koolaid running down your chin Thug McCaskey.

Well that was a piss poor pissing match....

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SideshowBob311: "Sadly enough, I think we're the "intelligent" portion of the sports radio fanbase".
"I make fun of whoever sucks, including me"- Harry 11/30/07

The Bears are not cheap.

I hope this ends the debate.

When are you goimg to squash your bug?

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SideshowBob311: "Sadly enough, I think we're the "intelligent" portion of the sports radio fanbase".
"I make fun of whoever sucks, including me"- Harry 11/30/07

I'm not there yet.

I am.....

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SideshowBob311: "Sadly enough, I think we're the "intelligent" portion of the sports radio fanbase".
"I make fun of whoever sucks, including me"- Harry 11/30/07

Yes you can open another thread to discuss the Bears "cheapness" but consider the following...

- New stadium which the taxpayers are paying for

What's your point. That's how most stadiums are built. Why should the Bears shoulder the load for a stadium they use 10 days a year? The fact that the new stadium got done is a minor miracle.

- Resigning good coaches (Love, and Dave Toub (ST coach) LOL, good? Lovie?

Regardless of Lovie's lack of 1/2 time adjustments he's still a decent coach. There are plenty worse. Actually I'm not his biggest supporter but apparently there's a huge contingency of Bear fans who NEEDED to get Lovie signed during the off season. Fact is the Bears re-uped Lovie and he's now in an elite crowd of current SB experienced head coaches.

- Resigning the best GM we’ve ever had, through 2013 The guy that drafted Rex and Benson - and he couldn't carry Jim Finks's jock strap

Please that's a pretty weak argument against JA. Rex and Benson is that the best you got? Go back to the 2005 draft and tell me who else YOU would have drafted at #4.
How about these flops..
Mark Anderson
Devin Hester
Benard Berrian
Tommie Harris
Nathan Vasher
Lance Briggs
Hunter Hillenmeyer
Charles Tillman
Alex Brown
Adrian Peterson

- letting go average coaches (Rivera) so they could sign Lovie's butt-buddy for a fraction of the cost, so they could shift that salary to Lovie, whereas Chico got a raise when he went to SD

Please Rivera SUCKS ASS. (yeah that's right Mac he sucks... I don't care if you have a man crush on Rivera) If he was so great why has he been passed upon by everyone in the NFL for a head coaching job 2 years straight? Why did he take a demotion just to stay in the NFL? ... and don't bother telling me that it's so he could "learn the 3-4". I'll tell you why he sucks. Because despite having some of the most talented defensive units in the last two years, they gave up an AVERAGE of 24 points a game in the playoffs. End of story the guy can not coach or make adjustments. Urlacher was yelling at Rivera from the field during the SB. Players have come out against Rivera and his lack of coaching this off season.

Yes, Babich is Lovie's guy but he's no worse the Rivera. Unfortunately due to injuries we really don't know how good/bad Babich is yet.

- Adding depth to QB & DLine - the combined salaries of our three QBs is less than most playoff team's QBs

And that's a problem how? If Griese or Rex worked out, that would have been genius.

- Long term contracts to core players (only 2 starters in the last two years became free agents (Hunter Hillenmeyer ‘06 (signed), Briggs ‘07). It's called a salary cap because you have to stay a certain percentage near it.

Come on dude. How can you even say that with a nick name like yours. No team has to "stay a certain percentage near it". Every million away from the cap goes into McKasey's pocket. Considering the Bears are probably the closest to the cap of any team that says a lot about how the McKasey's have opened up their pockets, of late. Considering there are 10 teams 20m under the cap there's no need to take shots at the Bears owners.

- New indoor practice facility. (named after Walter) One of the last teams in the NFL to do so

I guess that makes it the most modern eh?

- New training camp. (I’m not sure how much of an upgrade this was… at least camp is no longer behind enemy lines ) Another way to embezzle a new stadium from the taxpayers. Couldn't get the money by giving revenue to Platteville, WI.

I don't see a problem with that.

- 108 of 109m cap space spent 2007. ONLY because they thought this was 'their year' - otherwise they'd be 10-20Million below it.

I don't see a problem with that.

My responses are in blue. Just like the blue (and orange) Koolaid running down your chin Thug McCaskey.

I'm enjoying this, keep it up!

This is fun.. and your bug is driving me nuts BD.

Thug,

Jerry Angelo is paid to draft the RIGHT guys. The year he took Benson #4 overall, he could have had Marion Barber in the 4th round or Frank Gore in the 3rd round. The year Rex got drafted, they could have taken a flyer on some undrafted guy out of Eastern - Tony Romo. Hindsight is 20/20 so I'm not gonna get into all the draft picks. Angelo has proven over time that he is very good at drafting on the defensive side of the ball, but isn't worth a crap on offense. The piss poor drafting of offensive linemen stands out (he's only drafted TWO on Day One: Terrence Metcalf and Marc Colombo), and other than Berrian he has whiffed pretty badly over time (going back to Tampa) at the WR position - Mark Bradley was a 2nd round pick three short years ago, and he should be coming into his own now - instead he's either INACTIVE or ineffective.

Regarding Ron Rivera taking a demotion. Lovie 'fired' him so late in the game, there weren't any job openings. I think he's doing a great job coaching the ILBs in San Diego, where they regularly lead the team in tackles, which is what his job is - and that 'defense' is pretty decimated with injuries also, so I don't want to here it. And as I pointed out, if the Bears aren't so damned cheap, why did Chico take a 'lowly ILB Coach' job and he's STILL making more money than what the Bears were paying him to be their D-Coordinator.

The fact remains, unless the McCaskeys' feet are held to the fire, they pay their assistant coaches, scouts and other front office 'non-management types' (aka Greg Gabriel) on the cheap. The reason being? There is NO SALARY CAP for coaching staff and the front office. Ted Phillips has a job for life for pushing the stadium project through and getting the taxpayers to foot a good chunk of the bill.

i love word fights!

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@audioidkid

Ok so we agree that JA is "very good" on the defensive side (I might include ST since Hester has really worked out). I'll give you that JA's offensive picks have been lacking. But putting JA's picks against our picks in the 90's, JA looks pretty damn good.

1999 Cade McNown
1998 Curtis Enis
1997 No Pick
1996 Walt Harris
1995 Rashaan Salaam
1994 John Thierry
1993 Curtis Conway
1992 Alonzo Spellman
1991 Stan Thomas
1990 Mark Carrier
1989 Donnell Woolford



Everyone knew Rivera was looking for a head coaching job. It's inaccurate to say Rivera was let go so late in the game. What was Smith to do? Fire Chico prior to the SB? "Bears coach Lovie Smith enthusiastically gave his endorsement to Rivera" (regarding him being a head coach) Yes, Lovie did so to get rid of Rivera. But don't make it sound like Smith held Rivera back. Rivera did that to himself.

In additional to Urlacher showing Rivera up during the SB. Players during the off season made comments like "Rivera just expect you to make your assignments and to play at a high level". That's such a small part of coaching. I can see half time know. "guys I know we're getting our head beat in. Let's go out there and do what we do".



I'll concede this point to you. It's true that the front office is not paid like their on the Yankee payroll. But at the end of the day, who cares as long as the front office produces? Fact remains while under JA (2001) we've won 2 division championships and 1 SB appearance.

btw... if you want to argue the Bears are cheap a good argument would have been when the Bears wanted to stick the Chicago Park District and the taxpayers with the $70,000 to re-sod Soldier Field last season.

I would have responded. The taxpayers should not pay to re-sod since that is an expected business expense. However, I don’t have a problem w/ the Bears asking CPD to re-sod after all they do pay CPD 5.7 million a year.

I guess without seeing the rental agreement between CPD & C.Bears it’s hard to tell who’s responsible.

http://www.nbc5.com/news/10712486/detail.html

At the end Thug, I think we all want the same thing: The Bears to win the Super Bowl.

I think there was some 'power play' thing going on with Lovie regarding Ron Rivera. I think he wanted to shove something up management's ass after his prolonged negotiation - so he simply promoted the guy HE WANTED to be the D-Coordinator in place. None of us know whether Ron Rivera or Lovie Smith was responsible for Steve Smith running roughshod over the Bears in the playoffs - or Brian Urlacher dropping into coverage vs. blitzing more during the Super Bowl. I'd tend to say it was Lovie's stubborn nature to 'follow the system'. The same 'system' that Tony Dungy taught him, and that Tony Dungy knew how to pick apart.

It's always been troubling to me that the Bears hire first time head coaches, and most of the time first time NFL coordinators or positional coaches. History shows us that with few exceptions they don't do too well in the Super Bowl. Usually the coaches winning those games are long tenured first time head coaches, or guys that are taking their second or third shot at being a head coach with another team. Cowher and Billick won in the past dozen years, but most of the other guys have been around: Belechick, Gruden and Vermeil - but I'm just going off the top of my head on that.

Thug, it's been fun trading insight with you. I think it's safe to say we're both fairly well educated on the Bears and passionate about them.

If this were a debate, it could be said that we are master debaters.

Duny didn't pick apart the "system" as much as people like to make it sound. Here are my top three reasons they lost: (a) D. Manning and Grossman sucked; (b) Turner called an awful game; (c) without Harris, they were unable to generate an effective pass rush from front four (a method thad proved to be rather effective vs Colts' O)

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"It's not exactly a rocket surgery." D.J.

A) Rex Grossman turnovers
B) A rookie mistake by D. Manning
C) The TOTAL inability to stop the RBs catching passes in the flat
D) The inability to stop the run

Game Recap: http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/history/boxscore/sbxli

By the way, the GM talk has completely missed both Vanisi and Halas, who I would put in front of Angelo.

The Bears have had very few GMs in their time due to nepotism.

I mentioned Hall of Famer Jim Finks, who had a strong hand in several Vikings NFC Championship teams, the Super Bowl Bears and the late 80s/early 90s Saints.

Vainisi was nothing more than a caretaker who benefitted from Finks groundwork. How did things work out for ole Jerry in Detroit in the late 80s?

In doublechecking some facts for this post, I learned that Finks even helped the Cubs become successful:

Jim Finks (August 31, 1927 - May 8, 1994) was an American sports executive, primarily for American football.

Jim Finks was born in St. Louis, Missouri and attended the University of Tulsa. After being selected as a 12th-round pick of the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 1949 NFL draft, he played for several years as defensive back and quarterback, retiring after the 1955 season. He served as an assistant coach under Terry Brennan at the University of Notre Dame in 1956, after which he went on to the Calgary Stampeders of the Canadian Football League, where he served as a player, assistant coach, scout, and finally general manager. Finks turned the Stampeders into a winning team. He signed many of the players that made Calgary the winningest team in the CFL during the 1960's, though it did not win a Grey Cup title until 1971.

In 1964, Finks was named the general manager of the Minnesota Vikings. In 1968, Minnesota won its first NFL Central Division Championship, marking the start of a dynasty that produced 11 division championship teams and four Super Bowl appearances in the following 14 years. In 1969, the Vikings won 12 of 14 games and claimed the NFL championship before losing to the American Football League's Kansas City Chiefs 23-7 in Super Bowl IV.

The Vikings team that Finks put together was powered by a dynamic defensive front four, popularly known as The "Purple People Eaters". The first member of the unit, defensive end Jim Marshall, came to the Vikings in a 1961 trade before Finks arrived. In 1964, the new general manager added two potential stars to the line: end Carl Eller as a first-round pick in the NFL draft, and tackle Gary Larsen in a trade. He completed "The Purple People Eaters" in 1967 by picking Alan Page in the draft.

In 1967, Norm Van Brocklin resigned as head coach and Finks immediately hired Bud Grant, who had been a successful coach of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers of the CFL for 10 seasons. That year, Finks also brought in a new quarterback, Joe Kapp, from the CFL. Kapp had played for the Calgary Stampeders when Finks was its General Manager. During the 1969 NFL championship season, Kapp passed for a record seven touchdowns against the Baltimore Colts and was a major contributor to his team's success.

In 1972, Finks made another daring trade with the New York Giants, this time to bring back Fran Tarkenton, the quarterback he had traded in 1967. In 1973, the Vikings defeated the Dallas Cowboys for the NFC championship but lost to the Miami Dolphins 24-7 in Super Bowl VIII. It turned out to be the last game with the Vikings for Finks, who that season was named the NFL Executive of the Year. Finks, who had been named a club vice-president in 1972 as a reward for his brilliant work, resigned in May, 1974.

Finks joined the Chicago Bears, as general manager and executive vice-president. He spent the remainder of the 1974 season studying the Bears player talent as well as opposition players from all around the NFL. The next year, he began employing the same formula he used so well in Minnesota to improve the Bears' talent pool.

The Bears under Finks improved. By 1977, they reached the playoffs for the first time since 1963. They were a playoff team again in 1979 with a 10-6 record, best-ever for the Finks-led Bears. But Finks' tenure in Chicago ended suddenly in 1982 when he resigned because George Halas did not consult him in the hiring of Mike Ditka as head coach.

Finks left behind one of the most dominant NFL teams of the 1980s. Nineteen of the 22 players who started in Chicago's 46-10 win over the New England Patriots in Super Bowl XX were drafted during the Finks regime. That 1985 team went over 15-1 in regular season and shut out both the New York Giants and Los Angeles Rams in playoff games leading to the Super Bowl.

After leaving the Bears, Finks joined the Chicago Cubs as president and chief executive officer in September 1983. He remained through the 1984 season when the Cubs captured the 1984 National League's Eastern Division crown.

On January 14, 1986, Finks took charge of a New Orleans Saints team that never had experienced a winning season in its 19-year history. His first move was to hire a new coach, Jim Mora. Success came more quickly for Finks in New Orleans than it had in either Minnesota or Chicago. In just his second season, the Saints won 12 games for their first winning season ever. Finks was named NFL Executive of the Year for the second time.

When NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle retired in 1989, Finks was at odds-on-choice to replace him. He was unanimously endorsed by the first committee of owners, but eventually another ownership group prevailed with their choice of Paul Tagliabue.

Finks died in 1994 from lung cancer and was selected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1995.

The Cubs were successful?

Hey Thug (aka Lovie Smith Jr.), get a clue, Grid just torched you on each one of your points. Please put down the crack pipe dude.

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Jack Phelan dot commmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

C on your list is the only indication of Dungy's success at picking apart the system. I would argue though, that CBs and LBs had to play a little too deep to make up for shortcomings at S positions. This resulted in a D perfectly softened for short passes to RBs. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be an apologist for Lovie or his system. I called for his firing after his first "Rex is our quarterback." All I am saying is that failure to perform by Bear players and coaches had a lot more to do with the loss than Dungy's geniusness.

GM's suckage also contributed. In his stubbornness he failed to see what everyone has seen rather clearly. Specifically:
(a) Mike Brown was done after that achilles tear in Green Bay - needed to get some solid safeties but he gambled on Brown's non-existent durability and a rookie from Texas (state) that Lovie has a crush on. Considering that his head coach is a stubborn practitioner of a system (that word again) that relies on directing the offensive traffic at safeties this was an absolutely unacceptable bet.
(b) Grossman, WRs - nuff said
(c) Turner - I watched him with the Bears, I watched him at the U of I, still watching him on the Bears and trying to figure out why wouldn't they just get an average fat bottomed #54 jersey clad Joe Sixpack eating his brunch at Flapjack's or Brandy's, limo his a** to Soldier Field and ask him to call plays. He sure won't do it any worse than Turner.
(d) letting Colombo go - last I checked he was pretty successful at keeping rushers off Romo

... feel free to add

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"It's not exactly a rocket surgery." D.J.

I can call a pretty nice game on Madden. I even had enough sense to bench Rex immediately and let Griese lead me to SB victory.

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Paws Up

Colts suck.

Do I sound THAT bitter, Ryan?

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"It's not exactly a rocket surgery." D.J.

, I was just having some fun.

Grid I consider Finks a fine GM. However since the 90's were a complete black hole of Bears suckiness, JA has turned the ship around. Can we agree on that?

I agree that we're both passionate about the Bears and the end result is cheering them on to a SB victory.

Here's the thing about the SB where Rivera (or Lovie if you think he was calling the shots) screwed up. What's the one thing that would have helped the Bears defense stop Manning other then a snow storm that's not happening in Miami? Hurricane weather conditions. Manning made 2 passes over 7 yards all game. The 1 TD to Wayne when Manning (I think it was him) slipped. But if you remember Wayne had to practically back peddle to catch the ball it was so inaccurate. The other throw was picked off. Essentially Manning had no down field accuracy.

The coaching staff really screwed up by not challenging Manning by blitzing and aggressive coverage of the RB's and TE. We should have left Harrison and Wayne in man coverage. In that driving rain not even Manning was accurate long.

But it's just one of many many strategical errors made by the Bears coaching staff. That's the one thing that really bugs me about Lovie's staff. They never make half time adjustments.

Regarding the whole cheap factor I just want to give credit where credit is due. I know it's unpopular to say the McKasey's are no longer cheap. But the last 7 years prove they have turned the corner.

You don't have to look any further then their continued commitment to stay competitive by signing Vasher and Tillman to 4m+ yearly deals... a YEAR EARLIER then they needed to. The front office is committed to the core players for the LONG HAUL. Not just because of 1 SB appearance.



Dude, grow up.