Everything "matters". The fact is you can't explain how they matter, and so, you have no idea who is "good" and who is "bad" and there's really no point in talking about it.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

That's because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Ned Yost is considered a backward manager, a throwback to the past, a guy who runs and bunts in the face of mountains of real numbers and cold hard facts suggesting those are the wrong decisions. And you see exactly how much it's mattering.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

How about this:

Ned Yost is a dope. If he wins it's because of his players. If he loses it's because of his players.

Joe Maddon is a sharp guy. If he wins it's because of his players. If he loses it's because of his players.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Sounds reasonable.

_________________

Don't let me pull your strings, sir.

I thought it was appropriate.

I'm open to suggestions though.

Ask Joe Maddon how much Terry Collins mattered.

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The part you either fail to see, acknowledge or havent experienced is they are both leaders of the organization. I cant breakdown the value or impact of a true leader, but its like Porn, you know it when you see it. In the case, if you have never seen it, you dont know what it is.

I dont care what level of athletics you played at, but you know a good leader from a bad one. transcends to business as well, can have a bad leader and a good leader.

Did my sales manager at Baird & Warner help me learn things, how to deal with people, how to cut a deal, sure. Did he cut my deals for me...no. I did it, but it sure helped having a good manager preparing me to deal with.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

If you were one of the top 1% of salesman in the world, and on your team were people that were also in the top 1%, don't you think you would have had success regardless of who your manager was?

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You're making a strawman argument. I'm not denying the existence of good leaders in any way, shape, or form. What I'm saying is, you have no idea who a good leader is and who isn't when it comes to a baseball team. It's all just claptrap. It's notional. You have the notion that Maddon is "good". So he could do everything wrong and in your mind he'd still be "good".

I'm not arguing with you regarding the good leaders in the local real estate business, as I'm sure you have a good idea about that.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Considering everyone who is arguing this point with me feels that the Cubs were a clearly superior team to the Mets, I don't think there can really be any question as to who the better manager was. That is, if you put stock in such things.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Zactly.

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Collins went to a 6 man rotation during the regular season to keep his guys fresh, Maddon should have done the same.

@ Jorr ... I don't care what some dickhead says on the Score, Yost has back to back World Series appearances.. His best starter is Ventura.. He's got no legit Home run threat..Yost has doneva nice job.

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If a manager brings more fans to the park, they matter.

If the Sox hired La Russa, the seats would be filled. White Sox nation would come alive again from a 10 year hibernation.

La Russa said in a 2013 interview that I was watching yesterday that he loved Jerry as owner. And he said he loves Chicago. Give him a three year deal. Why not?

That is possibly the most absurd statement ever made in this forum, and that's saying something. Have you really ever gone to a ballpark to see a manager? Has anyone?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I didn't say it would be the only reason. But it's a reason.

I'll respond to what you wrote in reverse. Ventura has kept me away from watching the Sox at the Cell. I have no interest in seeing the team with him as manager. I'm sure many other Sox fans feel the same way. Ventura has been a lump of coal in my Christmas stocking.

Really? Well, you're silly and ridiculous. Did Ventura keep you away when he nearly won a division title with the same team that was terrible for Ozzie Guillen the year before?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

If the manager has kept you away from the park, you were never going to go anyway and were looking for any excuse to not go.

Did you stay away in 2012?

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I bet Cubs fans were lining up to see Joe Maddon write in Jon Lester batting 8th, and David Ross batting 9th.

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I've been away for ten years, because they haven't been relevant. I'll watch games in April and by May there's no reason to watch any more. But if the Sox were to get a manager of Maddon's caliber, it would rekindle my interest in the team. Then they would have a future worth investing in. There's no future for the team with Ventura.

Please explain "Maddon's caliber". Did he change his caliber in his losing seasons?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

He got to the NLCS series with the Cubs. That's a HOF achievement in any year.

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It really is like a broken record. We could get in a time machine back to 2003 and substitute "Jerry Manuel" for "Robin Ventura" and "Dusty Baker" for "Joe Maddon" in all of these silly statements. But that was before Dusty lost your trusty. Give Maddon a little time.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

No World Series trophy means pajama parties and magic tricks will lose their luster.

Just wait until the racist hate mail starts pouring in!

Take a look at the NL Managers of the Year.

I believe there is only one guy on the list who hasn't been fired by the team.

The AL seems to do a little better.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Ventura is a great manager. Posted this before but White Sox won 76 games.

Pythag had them at 72 wins.
Fangraphs BaseRuns at 71 wins.

That's 4-5 wins you can hand to Robin.

He should stay manager for however long he likes.

That's pretty silly too. It could just mean the runs fell in opportune places.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

On Robin's watch, the team has been poor defensively, offensively and with base running. Only the pitching has been ok, but that's more because of Coop and having an ace like Sale than Robin.

those are hahn/kw issues.