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 Post subject: College Students Today
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:18 pm 
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They suck.

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New Poll: Most Students Favor Mandatory Trigger Warnings, Speech Codes
First Amendment is outdated, students say

A depressing new poll demonstrates the extent to which open contempt for free expression has become the default position of college students: a slim majority of surveyed students support regulating permissible speech on campus, and 63 percent believe trigger warnings should be mandatory.

That’s according to a forthcoming survey in New Criterion’s November issue, The Wall Street Journal reports:

To put some numbers behind that perception, The William F. Buckley Jr. Program at Yale recently commissioned a survey from McLaughlin & Associates about attitudes towards free speech on campus. Some 800 students at a variety of colleges across the country were surveyed. The results, though not surprising, are nevertheless alarming. By a margin of 51 percent to 36 percent, students favor their school having speech codes to regulate speech for students and faculty. Sixty-three percent favor requiring professors to employ “trigger warnings” to alert students to material that might be discomfiting. One-third of the students polled could not identify the First Amendment as the part of the Constitution that dealt with free speech. Thirty-five percent said that the First Amendment does not protect “hate speech,” while 30 percent of self-identified liberal students say the First Amendment is outdated.

We should be clear about what these results mean. It is not merely the case that most students like trigger warnings and think responsible faculty ought to include them. No, students think trigger warnings should be mandatory. Their concerns about the emotional needs—real or perceived—of their classmates comes first; the faculty’s free speech rights come second.

Given the rest of the results, it’s worth wondering whether students’ plainly awful views on this subject are born of pure ignorance. It seems to me this oddly popular, patently false idea that hateful speech is an illegal category of expression might inform students' views on speech codes and trigger warnings.

It also seems clear that many young people—particularly liberal young people—see the First Amendment as an obstacle to be overcome, rather than a fundamental bulwark that safeguards their own rights. This is a significant social change; the ‘60s leftists, for instance, properly understood that advocates of radical ideas had to fight for unfettered expression for all in order to guarantee that their own views would be shielded from repression. But perhaps campus leftists can no longer imagine a world where their ideas are broadly vulnerable to censorship—they see the First Amendment as something that only racist, bigoted conservatives need.

Freedom of speech is not just one of many important freedoms, but a precondition for being able to recognize and articulate all others. Put another way, it’s the First Amendment for a reason. The fact that college students don’t think they need the sort of protection it offers—and in fact view it as a hindrance—is reason for great dismay.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:23 pm 
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I don't have a problem with trigger warnings in the sense that students should be advised well ahead of time what sort of content they may encounter in a course. But if they can't handle it, that's on them, not the curriculum.

The First Amendment-killing "free speech zones" and stuff has been going on for years; it was an Arrested Development gag and that shit's going on ten years old.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:25 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I don't have a problem with trigger warnings in the sense that students should be advised well ahead of time what sort of content they may encounter in a course. But if they can't handle it, that's on them, not the curriculum.

The First Amendment-killing "free speech zones" and stuff has been going on for years; it was an Arrested Development gag and that shit's going on ten years old.

Right, but it seems like it's getting significantly worse every year or few years. That's troubling.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:25 pm 
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It would be good if police officers started giving "trigger warnings".

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:32 pm 
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I just wish people could work their shit out between themselves and not go running to campus administrators or Reddit because someone asked "where are you from?"

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:42 pm 
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Hmmm...my son is a Junior in high school, wonder his thoughts.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:46 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Hmmm...my son is a Junior in high school, wonder his thoughts.


Ask him.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:48 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
I don't have a problem with trigger warnings in the sense that students should be advised well ahead of time what sort of content they may encounter in a course. But if they can't handle it, that's on them, not the curriculum.

The First Amendment-killing "free speech zones" and stuff has been going on for years; it was an Arrested Development gag and that shit's going on ten years old.

Right, but it seems like it's getting significantly worse every year or few years. That's troubling.


Our media and educational system is doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing.

These things don't happen by accident.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:58 pm 
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They're taking away our rights.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:15 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
They're taking away our rights.

This started 30 years ago. Did you not notice or are you 20 something?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:58 pm 
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I just trigger warn every class.
Then I drop a few 'fucks' and 'Caller Bobs' into my lecture for good measure.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:09 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Hmmm...my son is a Junior in high school, wonder his thoughts.


Ask him.


At first I laughed and thought "shots fired"! Then I realized how much bs my HS sons can spit, or conversely how they can "shape" their answers. Either way> :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:14 pm 
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Psycory wrote:
I just trigger warn every class.
Then I drop a few 'fucks' and 'Caller Bobs' into my lecture for good measure.

Then they listen. And come to class on time. Probably learn something also. Oh the tragedy of it all!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:18 pm 
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I find it ironic that the kids/grandkids of the generation that wanted free speech and love no want to control speech and such.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:20 pm 
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Scooter wrote:
Psycory wrote:
I just trigger warn every class.
Then I drop a few 'fucks' and 'Caller Bobs' into my lecture for good measure.

Then they listen. And come to class on time. Probably learn something also. Oh the tragedy of it all!!!

Yeah, I have had students complain (like when I talked about oral hallucinations about hearing the voice of god as a symptom of schizophrenia, thus CLEARLY saying Jesus and all those people in the bible were schizophrenic) but that's fun. I honestly never trigger warn, but I have a thing in my syllabus that says I will talk about and show things that might make you uncomfortable. You have been warned. Also, if my class was a movie it would be rated R for strong language and occasional violence.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:27 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
I find it ironic that the kids/grandkids of the generation that wanted free speech and love no want to control speech and such.


If those are the parents/grandparents (who increasingly are paying for this batch) who swarmed to the suburbs 30-40 years ago and passionately still support the legacy of Nixon, Reagan and GHW Bush, those weren't exactly the free speech/civil rights/economic equality crowd that are contributing to your current misplaced sense of irony.

The hypocrisy of parents/grandparents is a difficult this to overcome. Vote Dr. Ben/Rubio/Trump/Carly/Jeb!/Cruz!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:45 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Vote Dr. Ben/Rubio/Trump/Carly/Jeb!/Cruz!

I'm quite certain the vast majority of the students who were surveyed are not voting for those guys. This seems to be overwhelmingly coming from the left.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:51 pm 
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I am not sure where Reader is going but plenty of 60's hippies and flower children have kids/grand kids in college and are not Republicans.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:53 pm 
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The ground works starts in grade school.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:01 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
The ground works starts in grade school.


Let's hopes not.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:09 pm 
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You should see some of the stuff my kids bring home. Feelings, how to work through stuff, how you have to be nice to everybody all the time even if they are jerk offs, let things go walk away. Next time they bring home a sheet I'll post about it. Schools can't do much to discipline anymore and it's set up for the the kid who is wrong to never really have consequences to his actions.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:11 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Schools can't do much to discipline anymore and it's set up for the the kid who is wrong to never really have consequences to his actions.

Wait until Jan 1 comes around........ :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:17 pm 
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Crap, what "pilot" program are they rolling out that they are just going to implement?

We've also gone to no grades. It's complete or in progress. I was willing to give it a try as it was explained. It's either bogus or they are giving him extra work within his homework that the are not holding him accountable for. I kinda think the concepts are too hard and then they aren't really testing him on it. I'm pretty frustrated right now.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:18 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
You should see some of the stuff my kids bring home. Feelings, how to work through stuff, how you have to be nice to everybody all the time even if they are jerk offs, let things go walk away.


It's bad to teach kids to be nice to people and let shit go?

I agree that administrators take the path of least resistance with discipline and just do whatever requires filing the least paperwork, which in practice usually means letting douchebags run roughshod over their classmates.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:25 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
You should see some of the stuff my kids bring home. Feelings, how to work through stuff, how you have to be nice to everybody all the time even if they are jerk offs, let things go walk away.


It's bad to teach kids to be nice to people and let shit go?

I agree that administrators take the path of least resistance with discipline and just do whatever requires filing the least paperwork, which in practice usually means letting douchebags run roughshod over their classmates.


You answered your own question. There are people in life you will not get along with. While you should not be disrespectful to them (sometimes you should) you do not have to be their friend either. The essentially force kids to be friends with people they don't want to be friends with. I don't want my kids with some kids.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:26 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
You should see some of the stuff my kids bring home. Feelings, how to work through stuff, how you have to be nice to everybody all the time even if they are jerk offs, let things go walk away.


It's bad to teach kids to be nice to people and let shit go?

Yeah, I agree with you. I'm not seeing the downside to this. This is a huge key to being successful in life, usually. Feelings are kinda important. For everybody

Curious Hair wrote:
I agree that administrators take the path of least resistance with discipline and just do whatever requires filing the least paperwork, which in practice usually means letting douchebags run roughshod over their classmates.

I disagree with this. The "paperwork" isn't bad. It's all online now anyway.
It's the non-stop headache of the bitching parents that would sway an administrator's decisions, if anything.

"I'm suspending your kid for bullying" translates to 4 months (if not 4 years) of some parent trying to ruin your job as a result.

Anyway, on January 1, news state laws kick in, pretty much making t impossible to suspend kids (in or out of school), short of having weapons or drugs, etc. I don't see that going very smoothly in most districts.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:28 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
You answered your own question. There are people in life you will not get along with. While you should not be disrespectful to them (sometimes you should) you do not have to be their friend either. The essentially force kids to be friends with people they don't want to be friends with. I don't want my kids with some kids.

How can a school "force" somebody to be friends with somebody else?

I work with people, every single day, that I do not like. Not by choice. I am essentially "forced" to work with them.
We are not friends.

Classmates does not equal friends. Group partners does not equal friends. Sports teammates does not equal friends.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:29 pm 
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spanky wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
You should see some of the stuff my kids bring home. Feelings, how to work through stuff, how you have to be nice to everybody all the time even if they are jerk offs, let things go walk away.


It's bad to teach kids to be nice to people and let shit go?

Yeah, I agree with you. I'm not seeing the downside to this. This is a huge key to being successful in life, usually. Feelings are kinda important. For everybody


Are you shitting me? You aren't exactly a paragon of this on this board. I'm saying it's okay to be an asshole to an asshole. And I definitely don't want my kids being forced to hang with the asshole.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:32 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Are you shitting me? You aren't exactly a paragon of this on this board. I'm saying it's okay to be an asshole to an asshole. And I definitely don't want my kids being forced to hang with the asshole.

There are assholes everywhere. In every school. Even expensive ones.

How are you gonna keep them from being forced to hang with assholes?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:33 pm 
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spanky wrote:
How can a school "force" somebody to be friends with somebody else?

I work with people, every single day, that I do not like. Not by choice. I am essentially "forced" to work with them.
We are not friends.

Classmates does not equal friends. Group partners does not equal friends. Sports teammates does not equal friends.


It's happening with the girls at my school. There was a special lunch for one of the crazy ones. A couple are trying to get the school to step in with non school time which is freaking ridiculous. Other thing some of the nicer or smarter kids are always put with the worst ones. They are still young, they need a break from them sometimes. It teaches them shit too cuz you know who is doing the work and who is not. That's not helpful to anybody.


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