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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:13 pm 
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People were scared of the jewish refugees high-tailing it from Hitler in the 1930's for basically the same reason some are afraid of the Syrian refugees who happen to be Muslim (there are Christians in Syria as well). Instead of fear of refugees spreading muslim ways of life/thinking, in the 1930's people were afraid the jews would spread communism/anarchy/bagels/situation comedy tv.

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Some governments in Eastern Europe have even specifically indicated they don't want to accommodate non-Christian refugees, out of supposed fear over the ability of Muslims to integrate into Western society.

"Refugees are fleeing fear," urged a spokesman for the U.N. refugee agency last week. "Refugees are not to be feared."

It's important to recognize that this is hardly the first time the West has warily eyed masses of refugees. And while some characterize Muslim arrivals as a supposedly unique threat, the xenophobia of the present carries direct echoes of a very different moment: The years before World War II, when tens of thousands of German Jews were compelled to flee Nazi Germany.

Consider this 1938 article in the Daily Mail, a British tabloid still known for its bouts of right-wing populism. Its headline warned of "German Jews Pouring Into This Country." And it began as follows:

"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."

In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.

The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.

Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.

No matter the alarming rhetoric of Hitler's fascist state -- and the growing acts of violence against Jews and others -- popular sentiment in Western Europe and the United States was largely indifferent to the plight of German Jews.

"Of all the groups in the 20th century," write the authors of the 1999 book, "Refugees in the Age of Genocide," "refugees from Nazism are now widely and popularly perceived as 'genuine', but at the time German, Austrian and Czechoslovakian Jews were treated with ambivalence and outright hostility as well as sympathy."

Part of that hostility was fueled, as some of the European grievances are now, by stereotypes of the refugees as harbingers of a dangerous ideology, in this instance communism and anarchist violence.

There were also economic concerns. The world was coming off the Great Depression. In France alone, there were a million people unemployed. Resentment against French and foreign Jews (large numbers from Germany and Romania had arrived by the early 1930s) led to "a new wave of antisemitism," detailed by a report put out by the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum.

The Chamber of Commerce of the city of Metz, for example, grumbled in 1933 that "highly undesirable" Jews "have become a veritable plague for honest French merchants." By 1935, the then French government enacted a series of quotas on certain professions -- effectively blocking Jews out. This was a precursor for the more pernicious and deadly forms of antisemitism to come.

In Britain, as a 2002 article in the Guardian recounts, perhaps as many as half a million German Jewish asylum seekers were turned away by authorities ahead of the outbreak of World War II. Many who were admitted in were given asylum less out of altruism than a need to fill low-paying domestic work "spurned by the native British." The situation was no better elsewhere:

Canada accommodated only 5,000 European Jews between 1933 and 1945, Australia 10,000, South Africa some 6,000. And the US's unyielding quota system meant that, between 1933 and 1937, only 33,000 German Jews were admitted (and only 124,000 between 1938 and 1941).

Meanwhile, those trapped within Nazi-controlled Europe faced the horrors of the Holocaust. Millions were systematically killed. Yet it was only in 1944, when the extent of the genocide had become better known, that the United States made a real effort to rescue European Jews. Even during World War II, let alone before it started, antisemitism was rife in American political and public life.

Unwanted foreigners have always caused consternation among a section of any society. Thankfully, there's an equally vociferous chorus in Europe currently championing the plight of Syrian refugees, and urging others to help make a new home for those displaced by conflict and other hardships.

Everyone deserves the chance to live a better life, activists argue.

The Australian journalist Tom Gara, now an editor at Buzzfeed News, tweeted an account on Tuesday of his Hungarian Jewish grandfather's escape from his war-torn homeland in May 1940. After an arduous five-month journey, he arrived at the faraway port of Adelaide. One of his places of sanctuary along the way: Aleppo, Syria.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:29 pm 
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Hussra wrote:
People were scared of the jewish refugees high-tailing it from Hitler in the 1930's for basically the same reason some are afraid of the Syrian refugees who happen to be Muslim (there are Christians in Syria as well). Instead of fear of refugees spreading muslim ways of life/thinking, in the 1930's people were afraid the jews would spread communism/anarchy/bagels/situation comedy tv.

Quote:
Some governments in Eastern Europe have even specifically indicated they don't want to accommodate non-Christian refugees, out of supposed fear over the ability of Muslims to integrate into Western society.

"Refugees are fleeing fear," urged a spokesman for the U.N. refugee agency last week. "Refugees are not to be feared."

It's important to recognize that this is hardly the first time the West has warily eyed masses of refugees. And while some characterize Muslim arrivals as a supposedly unique threat, the xenophobia of the present carries direct echoes of a very different moment: The years before World War II, when tens of thousands of German Jews were compelled to flee Nazi Germany.

Consider this 1938 article in the Daily Mail, a British tabloid still known for its bouts of right-wing populism. Its headline warned of "German Jews Pouring Into This Country." And it began as follows:

"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."

In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.

The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.

Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.

No matter the alarming rhetoric of Hitler's fascist state -- and the growing acts of violence against Jews and others -- popular sentiment in Western Europe and the United States was largely indifferent to the plight of German Jews.

"Of all the groups in the 20th century," write the authors of the 1999 book, "Refugees in the Age of Genocide," "refugees from Nazism are now widely and popularly perceived as 'genuine', but at the time German, Austrian and Czechoslovakian Jews were treated with ambivalence and outright hostility as well as sympathy."

Part of that hostility was fueled, as some of the European grievances are now, by stereotypes of the refugees as harbingers of a dangerous ideology, in this instance communism and anarchist violence.

There were also economic concerns. The world was coming off the Great Depression. In France alone, there were a million people unemployed. Resentment against French and foreign Jews (large numbers from Germany and Romania had arrived by the early 1930s) led to "a new wave of antisemitism," detailed by a report put out by the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum.

The Chamber of Commerce of the city of Metz, for example, grumbled in 1933 that "highly undesirable" Jews "have become a veritable plague for honest French merchants." By 1935, the then French government enacted a series of quotas on certain professions -- effectively blocking Jews out. This was a precursor for the more pernicious and deadly forms of antisemitism to come.

In Britain, as a 2002 article in the Guardian recounts, perhaps as many as half a million German Jewish asylum seekers were turned away by authorities ahead of the outbreak of World War II. Many who were admitted in were given asylum less out of altruism than a need to fill low-paying domestic work "spurned by the native British." The situation was no better elsewhere:

Canada accommodated only 5,000 European Jews between 1933 and 1945, Australia 10,000, South Africa some 6,000. And the US's unyielding quota system meant that, between 1933 and 1937, only 33,000 German Jews were admitted (and only 124,000 between 1938 and 1941).

Meanwhile, those trapped within Nazi-controlled Europe faced the horrors of the Holocaust. Millions were systematically killed. Yet it was only in 1944, when the extent of the genocide had become better known, that the United States made a real effort to rescue European Jews. Even during World War II, let alone before it started, antisemitism was rife in American political and public life.

Unwanted foreigners have always caused consternation among a section of any society. Thankfully, there's an equally vociferous chorus in Europe currently championing the plight of Syrian refugees, and urging others to help make a new home for those displaced by conflict and other hardships.

Everyone deserves the chance to live a better life, activists argue.

The Australian journalist Tom Gara, now an editor at Buzzfeed News, tweeted an account on Tuesday of his Hungarian Jewish grandfather's escape from his war-torn homeland in May 1940. After an arduous five-month journey, he arrived at the faraway port of Adelaide. One of his places of sanctuary along the way: Aleppo, Syria.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:38 pm 
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There is never a reason to not hate Muslims for many. It's unfortunate what American propaganda has done.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:41 pm 
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Maybe they were right to wanna keep out these funny looking jews and their weird religious practices:


http://nypost.com/2015/02/16/rabbi-was-paid-to-kidnap-brutalize-husbands-unwilling-to-divorce-prosecutors/
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:03 pm 
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Nas wrote:
There is never a reason to not hate Muslims for many. It's unfortunate what American propaganda has done.



That's silly. When you belong to an organization that features doctrine referring to those who aren't members as infidels and ordering their death or servitude, you should probably expect to be hated.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:07 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
There is never a reason to not hate Muslims for many. It's unfortunate what American propaganda has done.



That's silly. When you belong to an organization that features doctrine referring to those who aren't members as infidels and ordering their death or servitude, you should probably expect to be hated.

:lol: :roll: :lol: :roll:

Non-Christians, per the Bible:

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." -- 2 John 7

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? ... Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord." -- 2 Cor.6:14-17

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." -- Dt.13:6-10

Who the fuck are you crapping, JORR.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:10 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
There is never a reason to not hate Muslims for many. It's unfortunate what American propaganda has done.



That's silly. When you belong to an organization that features doctrine referring to those who aren't members as infidels and ordering their death or servitude, you should probably expect to be hated.

:lol: :roll: :lol: :roll:

Non-Christians, per the Bible

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." -- 2 John 7

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? ... Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord." -- 2 Cor.6:14-17

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." -- Dt.13:6-10



Stop drawing false equivalance. There is no imperative upon a Christian to wage holy war.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:11 pm 
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Stop being ignorant.

I believe Christians are the only faith in history to have actually waged a full on holy crusade. I've never seen any other faith go but a few hundred miles. And all other holy wars were on a much smaller scale.

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Last edited by IMU on Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:11 pm 
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Funny to hear JORR invoke the term knee jerk. That's all this anti-refugee bullshit is. All the 9/11 guys had student and tourist visas. It's 10x easier to get in that way, and yet I haven't heard one person in this thread mention it. Attaining refugee status is literally the hardest way to get into the US legally.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:12 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Stop being ignorant.

I believe Christians are the only faith in history to have actually waged a full on holy crusade.


Well, you should start reading a newspaper.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:13 pm 
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I feel good not being on the side of Elmhurst Steve and Donald Trump here. You can learn a lot by your positions by paying attention to who else is advocating them.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:14 pm 
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I don't see a future where your wit will overcome your ignorance any longer.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:14 pm 
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IMU wrote:
I believe Christians are the only faith in history to have actually waged a full on holy crusade.
The Jews would like to have a word with you.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:15 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
IMU wrote:
I believe Christians are the only faith in history to have actually waged a full on holy crusade.
The Jews would like to have a word with you.

The Jews failed pretty hard. Though I guess they did attempt it.

:)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:15 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Stop being ignorant.



Who is being ignorant? I know this topic inside out. I'm not saying that no Christians have ever acted badly. I'm saying those actions are not supported by doctrine the way they are in Islam. When you keep insisting otherwise you come off as an apologist or a dupe, one or the other.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:18 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Stop being ignorant.

I believe Christians are the only faith in history to have actually waged a full on holy crusade. I've never seen any other faith go but a few hundred miles. And all other holy wars were on a much smaller scale.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions ... in_1.shtml

In 711 Muslim forces invaded and in seven years conquered the Iberian peninsula.

It became one of the great Muslim civilisations; reaching its summit with the Umayyad caliphate of Cordovain the tenth century.

Muslim rule declined after that and ended in 1492 when Granada was conquered.

The heartland of Muslim rule was Southern Spain or Andulusia.

Periods

Muslim Spain was not a single period, but a succession of different rules.

The Dependent Emirate (711-756)
The Independent Emirate (756-929)
The Caliphate (929-1031)
The Almoravid Era (1031-1130)
Decline (1130-1492)

--Reason for exploration by Portugal and Spain was to get to Far East by avoiding Middle East.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:18 pm 
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IMU posts some Deuteronomy to defame Christians.

Jesus declared a NEW TESTAMENT

including such tidbits as:

You have heard that it was said, Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:35 pm 
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Let them all come over. Give them a smartphone. Let Google track them everywhere like they do to us already.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:41 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Funny to hear JORR invoke the term knee jerk. That's all this anti-refugee bullshit is. All the 9/11 guys had student and tourist visas.



It may or may not be, but i would suggest that rather than making an argument for indiscriminately allowing so-called refugees in, you're making one against student and tourist visas.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:43 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Funny to hear JORR invoke the term knee jerk. That's all this anti-refugee bullshit is. All the 9/11 guys had student and tourist visas.



It may or may not be, but i would suggest that rather than making an argument for indiscriminately allowing so-called refugees in, you're making one against student and tourist visas.

That's what I'm asking you and others to do. Instead of arguing about who is more ignorant, do some more research on this instead of repeating Fox News talking points.

Nobody is arguing for indiscriminately letting refugees in. Don't use strawmen here, JORR.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:44 pm 
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Hussra wrote:
What kind of beta-ass country lets lunatics with guns dictate our policies. If we were letting these refugees in before, why stop now? Good to know the USA is so weak-willed that a handful of looney-tunes can force our hand by shooting up other countries. Want America to do something or stop doing something? Just go shoot up some other country. America will fold like a cheap lawn chair under a stoned Ralphie May. America: crazy guys with guns or boxcutters bitch since 2001.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:47 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Stop being ignorant.

I believe Christians are the only faith in history to have actually waged a full on holy crusade. I've never seen any other faith go but a few hundred miles. And all other holy wars were on a much smaller scale.


Um you sure about that?
Islam started in Mecca. it was stopped at the gates of Vienna and in Spainat Tours. That a lot more than a "few hundred Miles"

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:51 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Funny to hear JORR invoke the term knee jerk. That's all this anti-refugee bullshit is. All the 9/11 guys had student and tourist visas.



It may or may not be, but i would suggest that rather than making an argument for indiscriminately allowing so-called refugees in, you're making one against student and tourist visas.

That's what I'm asking you and others to do. Instead of arguing about who is more ignorant, do some more research on this instead of repeating Fox News talking points.

Nobody is arguing for indiscriminately letting refugees in. Don't use strawmen here, JORR.


I almost never watch Fox News so I'm unaware of their talking points.

All I'm saying is, there is legitimate reason for concern. These are people who likely don't share our core values. I'm not saying that means we should let them be slaughtered. But it's also a reason to be very careful in the way it's handled. And I'm not even talking about blowing up a Jewish fruit stand. I'm talking about more mundane things like beating the fuck out of their wives or calling sini an "infidel" as he walks out of his house to catch the Skokie Swift.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:55 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Funny to hear JORR invoke the term knee jerk. That's all this anti-refugee bullshit is. All the 9/11 guys had student and tourist visas.



It may or may not be, but i would suggest that rather than making an argument for indiscriminately allowing so-called refugees in, you're making one against student and tourist visas.

That's what I'm asking you and others to do. Instead of arguing about who is more ignorant, do some more research on this instead of repeating Fox News talking points.

Nobody is arguing for indiscriminately letting refugees in. Don't use strawmen here, JORR.


I almost never watch Fox News so I'm unaware of their talking points.

All I'm saying is, there is legitimate reason for concern. These are people who likely don't share our core values. I'm not saying that means we should let them be slaughtered. But it's also a reason to be very careful in the way it's handled. And I'm not even talking about blowing up a Jewish fruit stand. I'm talking about more mundane things like beating the fuck out of their wives or calling sini an "infidel" as he walks out of his house to catch the Skokie Swift.

That's a completely reasonable post. But you can't talk about staying true to our values and then wanting to close off our borders completely. The terrorists are doing their best to make us abandon our values, and way too many of our citizens are all too happy to oblige. It's more disheartening than the attack itself was.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:02 pm 
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Why can't we do as I suggested before? Admit the old sick,infirm,women and small children. Those males of fighting age and ability go to the training camps we have set up at enormous cost and seemingly waste, and train them to fight for their home. This was we lessen both our exposure to the segment of their population that tends to do the insane shit and we help them take back their own if that is what they want. We contain the situation, tighten up security with finger print scanners and such at all points of entry that are monitored(easier for us) plus it gives more credence for us to secure our Southern Border.
I forsee something really bad coming down the pipeline if we do not control this, I think we are all going to start to be chipped if this shit is not stopped soon.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:03 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
That's a completely reasonable post. But you can't talk about staying true to our values and then wanting to close off our borders completely. The terrorists are doing their best to make us abandon our values, and way too many of our citizens are all too happy to oblige. It's more disheartening than the attack itself was.


I've never expressed such a position. Immigration is important. Especially when native-born Americans aren't having children the way they once did. Immigrants keep a country thriving, especially this country.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:11 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
IMU wrote:
Stop being ignorant.

I believe Christians are the only faith in history to have actually waged a full on holy crusade. I've never seen any other faith go but a few hundred miles. And all other holy wars were on a much smaller scale.


Um you sure about that?
Islam started in Mecca. it was stopped at the gates of Vienna and in Spainat Tours. That a lot more than a "few hundred Miles"



IMU getting schooled by chas.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:13 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
That's a completely reasonable post. But you can't talk about staying true to our values and then wanting to close off our borders completely. The terrorists are doing their best to make us abandon our values, and way too many of our citizens are all too happy to oblige. It's more disheartening than the attack itself was.


I've never expressed such a position. Immigration is important. Especially when native-born Americans aren't having children the way they once did. Immigrants keep a country thriving, especially this country.

You're right, that was shitty wording on my part. Is it fair to say you are ok with not letting any Muslims in, at least for the time being? Or is it specifically Syrian refugees?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:14 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
IMU wrote:
Stop being ignorant.

I believe Christians are the only faith in history to have actually waged a full on holy crusade. I've never seen any other faith go but a few hundred miles. And all other holy wars were on a much smaller scale.


Um you sure about that?
Islam started in Mecca. it was stopped at the gates of Vienna and in Spainat Tours. That a lot more than a "few hundred Miles"



IMU getting schooled by chas.


Ouch

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:19 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
That's a completely reasonable post. But you can't talk about staying true to our values and then wanting to close off our borders completely. The terrorists are doing their best to make us abandon our values, and way too many of our citizens are all too happy to oblige. It's more disheartening than the attack itself was.


I've never expressed such a position. Immigration is important. Especially when native-born Americans aren't having children the way they once did. Immigrants keep a country thriving, especially this country.

You're right, that was shitty wording on my part. Is it fair to say you are ok with not letting any Muslims in, at least for the time being? Or is it specifically Syrian refugees?


I don't know. But I can tell you for certain I have no desire to live in a country, a state, or a municipality that is majority Muslim. And I think non-Muslims who equate Islam in 2015 with other religions of today, would find out pretty quickly that they don't want to either.

If we can draw a real distinction between Muslims and Islam, I have no problem. I've known many Muslims that I've liked on a personal level. But their commitment to Islam- or rather lack thereof- was such that it made that possible.

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