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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:46 pm 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Paradise......that is certainly located at Clark & Addison.

I don't want to be the one to break this to you, but that McDonald's is being torn down.


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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:51 pm 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
This was filed in April and is nothing new. The case has no merit. The Cubs made a business decision in their best interests. They were fortunate to have had Olt get hurt just as the time Bryant could be called up without the Cubs losing the extra year of control arrived. Boras filed the grievance because it was in his clients best interest, I'm pretty sure the Union encouraged this as well. I doubt this will have any effect on future negotiations. When Bryant is eligible for free agency, he will have all the leverage and then the Cubs will have to bend over and lube up. But for the next several seasons he will be toiling for modest wages, while helping the Cubs win many games and hopefully a title or two. Bryant, Rizzo and Schwarber make the heart of their lineup one heck of a lot of fun to watch. There is no trouble, but Paradise......that is certainly located at Clark & Addison.


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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:01 am 
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All the Real Cub Fans checking in!

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:39 am 
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Bryant, evidently, will not be a year early.

Cubs had every right to do this. When it comes time for a long term deal, Bryant-- should he perform-- will have every right to hold the Cubs feet to the fire regarding what they did. That's how business works in today's MLB.

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:55 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
As I said at the time, when the Cubs start talking extension with Bryant, my first demand if I'm him is to pretend like he was eligible one year earlier.

Otherwise, hello New York or Los Angeles.

That's how it usually works anyway. If he's what he's cracked up to be hell never make it to FA anyway.
That isn't how it works. Normally, the starting point in a negotiation is the years after they no longer have control and when he would enter free agency. If I'm Bryant though, I tell the Cubs that is not my starting point to sign an extension and instead lets pretend like I didn't have one less year of service time because of that day he was in the minors.

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:06 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
That's how it usually works anyway. If he's what he's cracked up to be hell never make it to FA anyway.
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
That isn't how it works.

Yes, it most certainly is. Tons of examples.


Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Normally, the starting point in a negotiation is the years after they no longer have control and when he would enter free agency. If I'm Bryant though, I tell the Cubs that is not my starting point to sign an extension and instead lets pretend like I didn't have one less year of service time because of that day he was in the minors.

You have the wrong idea here.

Look up all the top prospects (Trout, Harper, Longoria) who became all stars and when they signed. Most often it's years before they get to FA. The idea then isnt to "keep them cheap" at that point. The idea is to lock up a great player for all his prime years. The years left til FA are meaningless at that point.


Also, there is a long history of this happening with other players. Not sure why you're acting like Bryant should be personally insulted as if this began or will end with him. I dont know that I can recall one player who cited the CBA service time thing as a reason for not re signing or affecting a negotiation years later. Not sure it exists.

I do understand that some people like to paint things the Cubs do (that have been done by tons of other teams for years) as way out of line for personal reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:12 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
You have the wrong idea here.

Look up all the top prospects (Trout, Harper, Longoria) who became all stars and when they signed. Most often it's years before they get to FA. The idea then isnt to "keep them cheap" at that point. The idea is to lock up a great player for all his prime years. The years left til FA are meaningless at that point.
Coming up with the value takes into account what they are already locked into. The discussion of money on the extension starts on the year he isn't under their control. Even if they signed him to an extension tomorrow they'll say "We have you until this year". If I'm Bryant I say "I'm testing free agency if you treat me like that in negotiations".
rogers park bryan wrote:
Also, there is a long history of this happening with other players. Not sure why you're acting like Bryant should be personally insulted as if this began or will end with him. I dont know that I can recall one player who cited the CBA service time thing as a reason for not re signing or affecting a negotiation years later. Not sure it exists.
It's just business and it is what I'd do if I was Bryant. He gets the leverage when it is extension time. He obviously isn't happy about it given that he is doing this.

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:14 pm 
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are cub's fans under the assumption that Bryant was cool with being sent down out of spring training? It sure didn't seem like it.

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:40 pm 
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Sox did the same thing with Rodon, who also has Boras as his agent, yet no grievance from him.

Does Rodon just believe in Hahn/KW's Plan more than Theo's? Is Bryant already sick and tired of playing for the Cubs? Makes no sense for one guy to file the grievance and the other in a nearly identical situation with the same agent not to, unless it's personal of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:42 pm 
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America wrote:
Sox did the same thing with Rodon, who also has Boras as his agent, yet no grievance from him.

Does Rodon just believe in Hahn/KW's Plan more than Theo's? Is Bryant already sick and tired of playing for the Cubs? Makes no sense for one guy to file the grievance and the other in a nearly identical situation with the same agent not to, unless it's personal of course.

Probably because Bryant and his eligibility was a national story and there was little to no discussion of Rodon's eligibility outside of Canaryville.

Anyway, imo, the extra year will play absolutely no role in whether or not he re-signs with the Cubs. That will be a product of two things. The team's performance and money.


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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:43 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
America wrote:
Sox did the same thing with Rodon, who also has Boras as his agent, yet no grievance from him.

Does Rodon just believe in Hahn/KW's Plan more than Theo's? Is Bryant already sick and tired of playing for the Cubs? Makes no sense for one guy to file the grievance and the other in a nearly identical situation with the same agent not to, unless it's personal of course.

Probably because Bryant and his eligibility was a national story and there was little to no discussion of Rodon's eligibility outside of Canaryville.

Anyway, imo, the extra year will play absolutely no role in whether or not he re-signs with the Cubs. That will be a product of two things. The team's performance and money.

He is a Boras client only the bolded word matters.

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:45 pm 
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Bryant was forced to spend an additional year in the minors compared to Rodon. nobody's going to file a greivance about having to spend all of 34 innings in the minors.

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:45 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
America wrote:
Sox did the same thing with Rodon, who also has Boras as his agent, yet no grievance from him.

Does Rodon just believe in Hahn/KW's Plan more than Theo's? Is Bryant already sick and tired of playing for the Cubs? Makes no sense for one guy to file the grievance and the other in a nearly identical situation with the same agent not to, unless it's personal of course.

Probably because Bryant and his eligibility was a national story and there was little to no discussion of Rodon's eligibility outside of Canaryville.

Anyway, imo, the extra year will play absolutely no role in whether or not he re-signs with the Cubs. That will be a product of two things. The team's performance and money.

I'm sure it matters to Rodon.

And if the extra year doesn't matter why did the Cubs risk creating a rift between themselves and Bryant? Is Theo actively fucking around with his players livelihoods? Does Ricketts have literally no money at all?


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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:47 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
are cub's fans under the assumption that Bryant was cool with being sent down out of spring training? It sure didn't seem like it.

Of course not. No one is.

We get the same "I understand it's business but I think I belong on the team" quote from 2-3 guys every year.


Im pretty sure Bryant has said on more than one occasion he loves playing for the Cubs.


This means nothing to Bryant and the Cubs, but it probably will help change the silly rule. Bryant will be a hero.


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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:47 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
America wrote:
Sox did the same thing with Rodon, who also has Boras as his agent, yet no grievance from him.

Does Rodon just believe in Hahn/KW's Plan more than Theo's? Is Bryant already sick and tired of playing for the Cubs? Makes no sense for one guy to file the grievance and the other in a nearly identical situation with the same agent not to, unless it's personal of course.

Probably because Bryant and his eligibility was a national story and there was little to no discussion of Rodon's eligibility outside of Canaryville.

Anyway, imo, the extra year will play absolutely no role in whether or not he re-signs with the Cubs. That will be a product of two things. The team's performance and money.

He is a Boras client only the bolded word matters.

That's not true. Boras clients have signed early before.


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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:48 pm 
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America wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
America wrote:
Sox did the same thing with Rodon, who also has Boras as his agent, yet no grievance from him.

Does Rodon just believe in Hahn/KW's Plan more than Theo's? Is Bryant already sick and tired of playing for the Cubs? Makes no sense for one guy to file the grievance and the other in a nearly identical situation with the same agent not to, unless it's personal of course.

Probably because Bryant and his eligibility was a national story and there was little to no discussion of Rodon's eligibility outside of Canaryville.

Anyway, imo, the extra year will play absolutely no role in whether or not he re-signs with the Cubs. That will be a product of two things. The team's performance and money.

I'm sure it matters to Rodon.

And if the extra year doesn't matter why did the Cubs risk creating a rift between themselves and Bryant? Is Theo actively fucking around with his players livelihoods? Does Ricketts have literally no money at all?

:lol:

Non issue to me. I guess we'll see.


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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:52 pm 
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Cracks me up reading what people think Bryant should do, or will do when he can become a free agent. Like he & his agent wouldn't do whatever to get the most $$$ or take a deal to get him wherever he might want to go & play. No...if the Cubs had started him in the majors at the start of last season...I'm sure Bryant would have given them a very team friendly deal when / if his time for free agency comes up!! Come on....it's business & it's Boras.

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:53 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
America wrote:
Sox did the same thing with Rodon, who also has Boras as his agent, yet no grievance from him.

Does Rodon just believe in Hahn/KW's Plan more than Theo's? Is Bryant already sick and tired of playing for the Cubs? Makes no sense for one guy to file the grievance and the other in a nearly identical situation with the same agent not to, unless it's personal of course.

Probably because Bryant and his eligibility was a national story and there was little to no discussion of Rodon's eligibility outside of Canaryville.

Anyway, imo, the extra year will play absolutely no role in whether or not he re-signs with the Cubs. That will be a product of two things. The team's performance and money.

He is a Boras client only the bolded word matters.

That's not true. Boras clients have signed early before.

I highlighted the word money, didn't say anything about signing early. All that matters is the money with him and getting the most.

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:56 pm 
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walkrman5 wrote:
Cracks me up reading what people think Bryant should do, or will do when he can become a free agent. Like he & his agent wouldn't do whatever to get the most $$$ or take a deal to get him wherever he might want to go & play. No...if the Cubs had started him in the majors at the start of last season...I'm sure Bryant would have given them a very team friendly deal when / if his time for free agency comes up!! Come on....it's business & it's Boras.
If he's going after the most money then he is gone.

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:05 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
walkrman5 wrote:
Cracks me up reading what people think Bryant should do, or will do when he can become a free agent. Like he & his agent wouldn't do whatever to get the most $$$ or take a deal to get him wherever he might want to go & play. No...if the Cubs had started him in the majors at the start of last season...I'm sure Bryant would have given them a very team friendly deal when / if his time for free agency comes up!! Come on....it's business & it's Boras.
If he's going after the most money then he is gone.


That is my take. While its not always the way....it does seem to be typical M-O for free agents. In other words...I'm saying Bryant & his agent will do what most free agents do and the fact the Cubs did what they did last year is & will be irrelevant.

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:08 pm 
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so you guys don't care if you are treated like shit as long as you get paid. OK. but not everyone is like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:14 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Bryant was forced to spend an additional year in the minors compared to Rodon. nobody's going to file a greivance about having to spend all of 34 innings in the minors.

I am not sure I understand this, please explain.

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:18 pm 
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America wrote:
Sox did the same thing with Rodon, who also has Boras as his agent, yet no grievance from him.

Does Rodon just believe in Hahn/KW's Plan more than Theo's? Is Bryant already sick and tired of playing for the Cubs? Makes no sense for one guy to file the grievance and the other in a nearly identical situation with the same agent not to, unless it's personal of course.


There are TWO guys who filed the grievance..... not just one guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:18 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
so you guys don't care if you are treated like shit as long as you get paid. OK. but not everyone is like that.


12 extra days in the minors for a team to get an extra year of your service? Playing by the collectively bargained rules? Watching almost every other MLB team do the same thing with their potential rookie stars? That is being treated like shit? OK. Maybe this rule will be collectively changed during the next negotiations. Poor Kris Bryant!

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:20 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
I highlighted the word money, didn't say anything about signing early. All that matters is the money with him and getting the most.

Guys who sign early are usually giving up some money they could get in FA.

Boras cares about money but his clients are the boss at the end of the day


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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:21 pm 
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Hawg--

Bryant and Rodon both could have skipped the minors totally. In fact, Bryant dominated them MORE than Rodon.

BUT Rodon only pitched 11 games in the minors, a couple months, before being called up.

WHERAS, Bryant played 181 games in the minors...parts of three seasons! before being called up.

NOT THE SAME

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:22 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
so you guys don't care if you are treated like shit as long as you get paid. OK. but not everyone is like that.

Kinda but this makes it seems unique. Its just the way it's done by most if not all teams under this CBA.


Id file it under paying dues.


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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:22 pm 
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Bryant needed time in the minors, at least for his defense. That is a fact.

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:25 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
so you guys don't care if you are treated like shit as long as you get paid. OK. but not everyone is like that.

Kinda but this makes it seems unique. .


It IS unique. he was the #1 prospect in baseball. perhaps the biggest prospect in several years. he is supposed to be the FACE of your franchise. He is supposed to be the BIG STAR on your team. don't treat him like shit. what goes around comes around. this isn't some guy cutting up chickens on the killing floor.

Schwarbs got treated way better and his defense was actually WORSE Hawg.

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 Post subject: Re: Trouble in Paradise?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:27 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
so you guys don't care if you are treated like shit as long as you get paid. OK. but not everyone is like that.

Kinda but this makes it seems unique. .


It IS unique. he was the #1 prospect in baseball. perhaps the biggest prospect in several years. he is supposed to be the FACE of your franchise. He is supposed to be the BIG STAR on your team. don't treat him like shit.
.

As the Nats did with Harper, The Angels with Trout and the Rays with Longoria


Not unique


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