btw when people like bernstein go ahead and point out that jason heyward has recently been a 6.2 and 6.5 WAR player i wanna go ahead and point out to you just how much WAR values defense (and hence why guys like dan are totally enamored with it being THE ONE TRUE COMPLETE MEASURE OF A PLAYER)

last season kevin kiermaier played in 151 games (535PA/505AB) and went .263/10/40/18 with 62 runs scored. the guy only managed a .737 OPS, but i can tell you that he had a pretty good tail end of the season as i ended up trading a ~30HR bat in brandon moss to get him in nas' superdeep (20 teams + giant rosters) keeper league. HOWEVER, kiermaier is known to be one of if not arguably the best defensive CFs/outfielders in baseball, so when you factor that in with those pedestrian #s (even noting that 20HR is the new 30HR compared to the roid era / the 00s) kevin kiermaier finished with 7.3 WAR last year.

again, allow me to repeat this: kevin kiermaier was a 7.3 WAR player last year

to put that in perspective, i'm pretty sure that the 7.3 WAR is better than all but 3 of ken griffey jr's seasons.... and we're talking about kevin freaking kiermaier here. a guy who managed .263/10/48/18 last year.

griffey managed to top 7.3 WAR in exactly 3 seasons: 1993, 1996-97... and in those years (of 8.3, 9.7, and 9.1 WAR respectively) griffey was .309/45/109/17, .303/49/140/16, and .304/56/147/15. to give you an even more !!! idea of how important defense is (at least to WAR) in 1998 griffey managed a .284/56/146/20 season (50/20 club!) and he only got 6.6 WAR, which is decidedly less than kiermaier's 7.3.

(obviously WAR is a stat that's relative to how stats across the league are doing. duh)

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Ouch

Nah, I'm good.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

also, idk how anyone could be moaning about having heyward for 8yrs/184mil or whatever because it's totally fucking obvious that if he's any good you're going to have him opt out after 3 seasons, and then the cubs prolly won't do another 8yr ~200/+ mil deal with an age 29-30 jason heyward like they're theoretically willing to do right now. i heard amattacola telling people point blank YOU HAVE JASON HEYWARD FOR 8 YEARS, but i'd be really surprised if that's the case.

i wouldn't be surprised if the cubs were the only team willing to give him two different opt outs (especially that first one in 3 years) because it's quite possible that you just end up paying him 25-30mil/yr for 3 seasons and then he says "thanks" and goes and signs with the angels/mets/tigers/etc for 8 years / 200+mil. jason heyward is in hawkeroo's catbird's seat here because he's going to do no worse than 184mil over the next 8+ years

the only way this backfires for the cubs is if he has a horrible injury and/or completely devolves as a player and then you're left with an albert belle situation where he's taking that whole 184mil.... but that said right now got a highly motivated jason heyward for the next 3 years right in your championship window so you're all set, even if an "8 year deal" is just PR/formality bullshit as it's essentially an injury insurance policy for heyward's 3 year deal.

hell, they even gave him a 2nd opt out (i'm assuming after 5yrs?) so that way he can get an extra 2 years to get his shit together and to go elsewhere and get paid; it's almost like the cubs WANT to shove him out the door after 3-5 years, eh?

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I bought 12-game packages (heh, heh) in the bleachers after the news today.
I have a legit cubs buzz.

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Agreed. Carpenter and Grichuck were probably better. Anecdotally, I feared Heyward more than anyone in that playoff series tho


This will be an interesting season

I didn't read the whole thread, but if no other moves are made, I'm not opposed to JH in RF, Bryant in CF (work on it all spring training, especially his arm) and then Baez at 3B.


A dozen runs per game can overcome some of the defensive woes.
Of course, I'm being conservative in that estimate.

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Let's be fair. They've been slapping around the Cubbies & the rest of the NL since even before the Gas House Gang of the 30's.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

You sound like a Brewers fan from the 1980's.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Or a Sox fan from the late 90's/early 2000's.

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Anyone that truly thinks that Heyward and Adam Eaton are similar is delusional.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Infield defense in that scenario is a strength. So that's good.
Outfield defense in that scenario is fantastic in one position, probably maybe pretty ok in one, and "just hit 40 HR and do not run straight into the bricks" in the other.

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Now you aspire to be like a Sox fan.

Happy 2005 brother!

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

2005!

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They are literally identical players offensively.

and one is a Gold Glove defender and the other one isn't even replacement level on D.

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CF is a lot more difficult than RF.

Don't even start with "replacement level on D" Mr Schwarber in LF Like It's No Big Deal.

In some respects, yes. But I agree, keep him in RF.

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All Cubs fans deserve to die of cancer in front of loved ones. Wooo Sox!

I'm not sure that's true. I don't really know what kind of defender Eaton is. Is he the negative guy he was last season or the plus 2 guy he was the year before in center?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

If it is the case, it likely means something went disastrously wrong with Heyward (or the market for baseball players).

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

On an unrelated note, I've never met a Sox fan over the age of 8 that doesn't smoke.

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Kenny Williams fell for the banana in the tailpipe

Can the injury part, to a certain extent, be insured against by the Cubs? That's probably where the extra $16m went - the Cubs spend $16M getting Hayward insured against some spectrum of debilitating injuries, and if he gets one of those injuries and stays for years 4-8, the insurance kicks in. I think you'll find somebody who would take 7-1 odds against both Heyward getting seriously injured and passing on the opt-out.

The risk of him turning into the White Sox' version of George Bell and having to pay him instead of making him go pump gasoline, that risk is squarely on the Cubs.

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

We shall meet some day, my friend

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Why is it so important to Cubs fans to perpetuate the half truth that he took less money to be a cub?

Even if it is correct in a very unsophisticated manner of analysis, what does it matter?

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

2016

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It's a whole truth, and it's not important.

I don't care if he plays here for free.....he's here!

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Dat's Right,Jack!

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George