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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:36 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
and what are the chances a team could win four games in a row?
It's just four coin flips. Every game is random. Theo didn't make a single move this year that made them more likely to win a World Series.

.


I think Heyward will have a line something like .250/.346/.411/.757 with about 17HR and 20 SB

So, about the same as Fowler.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:38 am 
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Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
and what are the chances a team could win four games in a row?
It's just four coin flips. Every game is random. Theo didn't make a single move this year that made them more likely to win a World Series.

.


I think Heyward will have a line something like .250/.346/.411/.757 with about 17HR and 20 SB

So, about the same as Fowler.


not about

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:42 am 
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Pretty much his career numbers. .250 is a little low.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:43 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
What kind of moron expects the Cubs to win? A never ending series of wait 'til next years. Cub fans: this is the life you have chosen.

Could have said the same of the Soxes in 03. Ya just never know.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:45 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:

But, I'm guessing, just like last year, we'll hear how the playoffs is crapshoot and every team has the same chance of winning.

First part maybe, second part is overstating it.

Certain teams have a better shot but the anything can happen factor is higher than other sports because of such short sample sizes.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:46 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
and what are the chances a team could win four games in a row?
It's just four coin flips. Every game is random. Theo didn't make a single move this year that made them more likely to win a World Series.

It's really quite a tough thing. If your White Sox can somehow sneak into the playoffs, they have the same exact chance of winning it all.

I dont think anyone has said that and if they did, they're crazy.

Or are you doing your all or nothing thing?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:50 am 
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Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
and what are the chances a team could win four games in a row?
It's just four coin flips. Every game is random. Theo didn't make a single move this year that made them more likely to win a World Series.

.


I think Heyward will have a line something like .250/.346/.411/.757 with about 17HR and 20 SB

So, about the same as Fowler.

So dolphin expects Heyward to have his worst season in the last 5. Only his sophomore slump year would be worse than those numbers.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:59 am 
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Ok, I've never dug into the details of WAR much but....

.250/.346/.411/.757 17hr 46 rbi 20SB WAR 2.2

.293/.359/.439/.797 13hr 60rbi 23SB WAR 6.5

Why the huge difference in WAR?

Defense? Heyward has pretty much equivalent traditional fielding numbers as Fowler. Not enough to warrant this huge difference in WAR.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:03 am 
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Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
Ok, I've never dug into the details of WAR much but....

.250/.346/.411/.757 17hr 46 rbi 20SB WAR 2.2

.293/.359/.439/.797 13hr 60rbi 23SB WAR 6.5

Why the huge difference in WAR?

Defense? Heyward has pretty much equivalent traditional fielding numbers as Fowler. Not enough to warrant this huge difference in WAR.

Fowler is a -1.0 in dWAR
Heyward is a +2.0

There ya go. dWar skews the WAR numbers too much sometimes but you'll find many articles online explaining how Heyward and Gordon are really that good.

I think with the Cubs plan to have DH's in RF and LF it's even a bigger thing to have a plus defender out there.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:03 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
and what are the chances a team could win four games in a row?
It's just four coin flips. Every game is random. Theo didn't make a single move this year that made them more likely to win a World Series.

It's really quite a tough thing. If your White Sox can somehow sneak into the playoffs, they have the same exact chance of winning it all.

I dont think anyone has said that and if they did, they're crazy.

Or are you doing your all or nothing thing?
You can't just say "all or nothing" every time.

Tell me how much of playoff baseball is just random chance and how much is not. Is it almost all luck? Is it mostly luck? Is it only a little luck?

Educate me.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:05 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
and what are the chances a team could win four games in a row?
It's just four coin flips. Every game is random. Theo didn't make a single move this year that made them more likely to win a World Series.

It's really quite a tough thing. If your White Sox can somehow sneak into the playoffs, they have the same exact chance of winning it all.

I dont think anyone has said that and if they did, they're crazy.

Or are you doing your all or nothing thing?
You can't just say "all or nothing" every time.

Tell me how much of playoff baseball is just random chance and how much is not. Is it almost all luck? Is it mostly luck? Is it only a little luck?

Educate me.

I already broke it down to a level I know you understand in the first reply. It doesnt get any simpler than that.

http://score670.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=2380409#p2380409

You just have staked out your "omg, its all random right? nothing matters? :roll: :roll: :roll: " stance and dont want to come off it.


And I only point out the all or nothing thing as often as you do it. It's your go to move to use hyperbole and exaggeration in these discussions. It would be silly to even deny it.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:08 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
Ok, I've never dug into the details of WAR much but....

.250/.346/.411/.757 17hr 46 rbi 20SB WAR 2.2

.293/.359/.439/.797 13hr 60rbi 23SB WAR 6.5

Why the huge difference in WAR?

Defense? Heyward has pretty much equivalent traditional fielding numbers as Fowler. Not enough to warrant this huge difference in WAR.

Fowler is a -1.0 in dWAR
Heyward is a +2.0

There ya go. dWar skews the WAR numbers too much sometimes but you'll find many articles online explaining how Heyward and Gordon are really that good.

I think with the Cubs plan to have DH's in RF and LF it's even a bigger thing to have a plus defender out there.


plus defender in RF. We'll see if he has the same impact with the step up in difficulty.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:11 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
Ok, I've never dug into the details of WAR much but....

.250/.346/.411/.757 17hr 46 rbi 20SB WAR 2.2

.293/.359/.439/.797 13hr 60rbi 23SB WAR 6.5

Why the huge difference in WAR?

Defense? Heyward has pretty much equivalent traditional fielding numbers as Fowler. Not enough to warrant this huge difference in WAR.

Fowler is a -1.0 in dWAR
Heyward is a +2.0

There ya go. dWar skews the WAR numbers too much sometimes but you'll find many articles online explaining how Heyward and Gordon are really that good.

I think with the Cubs plan to have DH's in RF and LF it's even a bigger thing to have a plus defender out there.


plus defender in RF. We'll see if he has the same impact with the step up in difficulty.

We just might (if he plays CF)

you think he's going to drop two full points? I would think not, but it's possible.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:13 am 
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Heyward will always be a polarizing player with value that is hard to determine.


I think if the Cubs make the playoffs though, having guys like Heyward in the outfield, Lackey in the rotation, and Zobrist in the lineup will be huge.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:16 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
Ok, I've never dug into the details of WAR much but....

.250/.346/.411/.757 17hr 46 rbi 20SB WAR 2.2

.293/.359/.439/.797 13hr 60rbi 23SB WAR 6.5

Why the huge difference in WAR?

Defense? Heyward has pretty much equivalent traditional fielding numbers as Fowler. Not enough to warrant this huge difference in WAR.

Fowler is a -1.0 in dWAR
Heyward is a +2.0

There ya go. dWar skews the WAR numbers too much sometimes but you'll find many articles online explaining how Heyward and Gordon are really that good.

I think with the Cubs plan to have DH's in RF and LF it's even a bigger thing to have a plus defender out there.


plus defender in RF. We'll see if he has the same impact with the step up in difficulty.

step up? CF is not more difficult to play than RF! Hasn't anyone played baseball even at the high school level?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:17 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
You just have staked out your "omg, its all random right? nothing matters? :roll: :roll: :roll: " stance and dont want to come off it.
No I haven't. I just want you to answer the question since I have misunderstood it.

Tell me how much of playoff baseball is just random chance and how much is not. Is it almost all luck? Is it mostly luck? Is it only a little luck?

Because I wasn't the one who invented the idea that the baseball playoffs are random, or mostly random, or even somewhat random.

We had a long chat on coc where people basically said "The job of the GM is to get a team to the playoffs and then it is mostly random(or however it was phrased)". So, just answer the question and that becomes my default stance. How much luck is involved in the baseball playoffs? You can even put a percentage onto it if you want.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:19 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
You just have staked out your "omg, its all random right? nothing matters? :roll: :roll: :roll: " stance and dont want to come off it.
No I haven't. I just want you to answer the question since I have misunderstood it.

Tell me how much of playoff baseball is just random chance and how much is not. Is it almost all luck? Is it mostly luck? Is it only a little luck?

Because I wasn't the one who invented the idea that the baseball playoffs are random, or mostly random, or even somewhat random.

We had a long chat on coc where people basically said "The job of the GM is to get a team to the playoffs and then it is mostly random(or however it was phrased)". So, just answer the question and that becomes my default stance. How much luck is involved in the baseball playoffs? You can even put a percentage onto it if you want.

baseball playoffs are random and yet I will hold the Cubs responsible if they don't make the WS.

Both are true for me. You set up a hype machine, you are responsible for said hype machine collapsing, even if it's outside your control. You set it up.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:23 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
You just have staked out your "omg, its all random right? nothing matters? :roll: :roll: :roll: " stance and dont want to come off it.
No I haven't. I just want you to answer the question since I have misunderstood it.

Tell me how much of playoff baseball is just random chance and how much is not. Is it almost all luck? Is it mostly luck? Is it only a little luck?

Because I wasn't the one who invented the idea that the baseball playoffs are random, or mostly random, or even somewhat random.

We had a long chat on coc where people basically said "The job of the GM is to get a team to the playoffs and then it is mostly random(or however it was phrased)". So, just answer the question and that becomes my default stance. How much luck is involved in the baseball playoffs? You can even put a percentage onto it if you want.

How can you not understand this?

You get that the more games played the more likely the best teams will win because of the sample size right?

That's essentially the whole thing. It doesnt mean that every team has an identical chance (like the 80-82 Padres vs the 102 win Yankees)

It means that there is a higher chance for the randomness of the game to enter in. Over 162 the best team will win. In one Wild Card game or a 5 game series one bad bounce can change things and there is no time for those bad bounces to even out like in the regular season.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:24 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
Ok, I've never dug into the details of WAR much but....

.250/.346/.411/.757 17hr 46 rbi 20SB WAR 2.2

.293/.359/.439/.797 13hr 60rbi 23SB WAR 6.5

Why the huge difference in WAR?

Defense? Heyward has pretty much equivalent traditional fielding numbers as Fowler. Not enough to warrant this huge difference in WAR.

Fowler is a -1.0 in dWAR
Heyward is a +2.0

There ya go. dWar skews the WAR numbers too much sometimes but you'll find many articles online explaining how Heyward and Gordon are really that good.

I think with the Cubs plan to have DH's in RF and LF it's even a bigger thing to have a plus defender out there.


plus defender in RF. We'll see if he has the same impact with the step up in difficulty.

step up? CF is not more difficult to play than RF! Hasn't anyone played baseball even at the high school level?


Yes. CF is harder.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:28 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
You get that the more games played the more likely the best teams will win because of the sample size right?
I want to know how much of a factor it is.
rogers park bryan wrote:
That's essentially the whole thing. It doesnt mean that every team has an identical chance (like the 80-82 Padres vs the 102 win Yankees)
You seem to be the one stuck on "all or nothing" now. I just want to know your opinion on how much luck is involved. You refuse to answer it. Is it almost all luck? Is it mostly luck? Is it only a little luck? Give a percentage if you want.
rogers park bryan wrote:
It means that there is a higher chance for the randomness of the game to enter in. Over 162 the best team will win. In one Wild Card game or a 5 game series one bad bounce can change things and there is no time for those bad bounces to even out like in the regular season.
See, when I read the bold text I can't help but see that as you saying that series comes down to one random play. Your example was that "one bad bounce" can cause a team to lose or win a whole series.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:30 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
CF is not more difficult to play than RF!


Huh?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:41 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
\You seem to be the one stuck on "all or nothing" now. I just want to know your opinion on how much luck is involved. You refuse to answer it. Is it almost all luck? Is it mostly luck? Is it only a little luck? Give a percentage if you want.

Classic.

I have to give you a percentage? How would I even begin to calculate that?

IMO, the more games played = less randomness. NBA and NHL way less random than MLB and NFL

If you dont understand that I dont know what to tellyou.

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
See, when I read the bold text I can't help but see that as you saying that series comes down to one random play. Your example was that "one bad bounce" can cause a team to lose or win a whole series.

I guess you are not comfortable with the randomness of baseball. Yes, a ball bouncing two feet to the left or right can change a game and series.

Is it likely that it all comes down to one play? No. Is it way more likely to have a strong effect in 15 games vs 162? OF course.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:41 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
CF is not more difficult to play than RF!


Huh?

This is a weird one.

CF overall is harder. In Wrigely, RF is kinda weird and might be close


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:47 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
I have to give you a percentage? How would I even begin to calculate that?

IMO, the more games played = less randomness. NBA and NHL way less random than MLB and NFL

If you dont understand that I dont know what to tellyou.
I said you could give a percentage if you wanted.

Why is it so hard to answer this: "Is it almost all luck? Is it mostly luck? Is it only a little luck?".

And of course more games played = less randomness. I just want to know much random it is.
rogers park bryan wrote:
I guess you are not comfortable with the randomness of baseball. Yes, a ball bouncing two feet to the left or right can change a game and series.

Is it likely that it all comes down to one play? No. Is it way more likely to have a strong effect in 15 games vs 162? OF course.
Almost everything has some degree of randomness. I just want to know how much. You told me I was wrong for thinking that people thought the playoffs were random, so I want to be corrected. Please correct me. Tell me how random it is. You're my only hope.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:14 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
Ok, I've never dug into the details of WAR much but....

.250/.346/.411/.757 17hr 46 rbi 20SB WAR 2.2

.293/.359/.439/.797 13hr 60rbi 23SB WAR 6.5

Why the huge difference in WAR?

Defense? Heyward has pretty much equivalent traditional fielding numbers as Fowler. Not enough to warrant this huge difference in WAR.

Fowler is a -1.0 in dWAR
Heyward is a +2.0

There ya go. dWar skews the WAR numbers too much sometimes but you'll find many articles online explaining how Heyward and Gordon are really that good.

I think with the Cubs plan to have DH's in RF and LF it's even a bigger thing to have a plus defender out there.


plus defender in RF. We'll see if he has the same impact with the step up in difficulty.

step up? CF is not more difficult to play than RF! Hasn't anyone played baseball even at the high school level?


Why, yes I did Hub. I even sucked so bad they put me in right field on occasion.

If CF is easier, move Soler there and keep your GG RF in RF. That should result in Soler having a better defensive year at the easier position.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:16 am 
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Reading the ball is harder from CF than a corner spot.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:17 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
CF is not more difficult to play than RF! Hasn't anyone played baseball even at the high school level?


Why, yes I did Hub. I even sucked so bad they put me in right field on occasion.


:lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:24 am 
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http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2013/0 ... ostseason/

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MLB can lay claim to the least deserving postseason winner.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:53 am 
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So one last time, since rpb called me out for being wrong.

Baseball playoffs: "Is it almost all luck? Is it mostly luck? Is it only a little luck?".

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:58 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So one last time, since rpb called me out for being wrong.

Baseball playoffs: "Is it almost all luck? Is it mostly luck? Is it only a little luck?".

It varies from year to year. But the chance of randomness affecting the games is higher because of the small sample size.

You know what a small sample size is. Apply that knowledge here.


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