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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:10 am 
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Today BA released both the free and paid versions of the White Sox 2016 Top 10:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/c ... prospects/

The list is below:

1. Tim Anderson, ss
2. Carson Fulmer, rhp
3. Spencer Adams, rhp
4. Trey Michalczewski, 3b
5. Jacob May, of
6. Tyler Danish, rhp
7. Adam Engel, of
8. Jordan Guerrero, lhp
9. Courtney Hawkins, of
10. Corey Zangari, 1b

Matt Eddy had this to say:

While the White Sox improved their record by three games in 2015, they didn’t come close to meeting preseason expectations and did not spend one day with a winning record after mid-May.

Chicago ended its season at 76-86 and on the outside of the postseason for the seventh straight year. What’s worse, the White Sox watched as yet another Central Division rival flew the American League pennant. The Royals represented the AL in the 2014 and 2015 World Series after the Tigers had done the same in 2012.

The White Sox positioned themselves for contention in 2015 based on a number of positive developments in 2014. Ace lefthander Chris Sale recorded his lowest ERA and highest strikeout rate, while Cuban import Jose Abreu mashed 36 homers and unanimously won the AL rookie of the year award. Meanwhile, the White Sox scored a potential coup in the 2014 draft when North Carolina State lefthander Carlos Rodon fell to them at No. 3 overall.

With a projected core of Sale, Abreu and hotshot rookie Rodon in place for 2015, general manager Rick Hahn aggressively pursued free agent talent, signing closer David Robertson, left fielder Melky Cabrera, first baseman Adam LaRoche and lefty reliever Zach Duke for a combined $128 million.

Hahn also traded four upper-level prospects to the Athletics for righthander Jeff Samardzija, and three of those prospects—shortstop Marcus Semien, righty Chris Bassitt and catcher Josh Phegley—served as regulars or semi-regulars in Oakland in 2015. Meanwhile, Samardzija bombed in Chicago, allowing the most hits, home runs and earned runs in the AL before leaving as a free agent to sign with the Giants.

The plan failed miserably. The five key imports contributed fewer than two wins above replacement (1.8) collectively in 2015—but they had help. The White Sox ranked last among AL teams in runs, home runs and slugging in 2015.

The club’s outlook for 2016 improved when Hahn orchestrated offseason trades for veteran third basemen Todd Frazier and Brett Lawrie, the latter of which is set to play second base.

Hahn sacrificed five prospects in the two trades, first sending lefthander Zack Erwin and reliever J.B. Wendelken to the Athletics for Lawrie, then parting with a trio of Top 10 Prospects—righthander Frankie Montas, outfielder Trayce Thompson and second baseman Micah Johnson—to acquire the Reds’ Frazier.

Chicago’s infield needed the talent infusion badly because it received the worst offensive production in the AL in 2015 at both second base (Carlos Sanchez) and third base (Tyler Saladino). Similarly, they addressed poor offensive production at catcher by signing free agents Alex Avila and Dioner Navarro to one-year contracts.

With a reconfigured lineup, a little luck and a rotation fronted by Sale, Rodon and Jose Quintana, the White Sox appear poised for a bounce-back season in 2016.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:47 am 
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the majority of that story has nothing to do with prospects

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:52 am 
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Sale/Rodon/Quintana can make some noise next year.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:03 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Sale/Rodon/Quintana can make some noise next year.


and Johnson had a rebirth in the minors

I think the starters will be excellent. This is a group that can go on a run, especially when Danks has his 10 or so good starts each year

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:09 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
the majority of that story has nothing to do with prospects


There are detailed background, scouting report and the future recaps on each player on the paid site. I am a paid subscriber so I did read all the details. In a nutshell Matt is not expecting any of these 10 to called up this year unless Anderson has a HUGE start.

There will be a chat later today and once it is complete and posted I will add the link. The charts usually have more detail and are free.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:12 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
Sale/Rodon/Quintana can make some noise next year.


and Johnson had a rebirth in the minors

I think the starters will be excellent. This is a group that can go on a run, especially when Danks has his 10 or so good starts each year

I used to say things like that about Cub rotations. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:30 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
Sale/Rodon/Quintana can make some noise next year.


and Johnson had a rebirth in the minors

I think the starters will be excellent. This is a group that can go on a run, especially when Danks has his 10 or so good starts each year



They have a pretty cheap rotation, with a lot of talent!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:32 pm 
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Cashman wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
Sale/Rodon/Quintana can make some noise next year.


and Johnson had a rebirth in the minors

I think the starters will be excellent. This is a group that can go on a run, especially when Danks has his 10 or so good starts each year



They have a pretty cheap rotation, with a lot of talent!


That's why if they could hit they would be a very dangerous team.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:52 pm 
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Zangari is an interesting dude. I saw him at the Under Armour Game a couple years ago when he was a pitcher. He's a big ole hoss throwing 95-96 and he could spin it a little but his mechanics were a mess and he couldn't throw strikes. He also participated in the home run derby and I think he made it to the finals. He was destroying baseballs all over the yard. I have no idea how much swing and miss is in there(I assume a lot) or if he can learn an approach but if he can he'll be a monster. The power is massive and it's legit.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:21 pm 
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This is the Courtney Hawkins year? Correct. #1 pick, 4th year in the minors AA promotion.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:31 pm 
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He better get moving quick. He's a whopping 22 yrs old. Just a few months older than the Great Albert Almora.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:33 pm 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
He better get moving quick. He's a whopping 22 yrs old. Just a few months older than the Great Albert Almora.


Then he must be a top prospect or did Kenny draft another great football player? son? daughter? or friend of the program, because thats so cute when the Sox do that.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:37 pm 
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Why do I even bother.....


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:40 pm 
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As a neutral observer, the Sox are building a nice farm system.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:50 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
As a neutral observer, the Sox are building a nice farm system.


ok

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:07 pm 
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If Tim Anderson were a Cubs prospect, which first ballot Hall of Famer would he unironically be compared to?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:34 pm 
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America wrote:
If Tim Anderson were a Cubs prospect, which first ballot Hall of Famer would he unironically be compared to?


Earl Cunningham

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:21 pm 
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as promised here is todays chat from BA and Matt Eddy:

Matt Eddy: Welcome to the White Sox chat. It’s my first time tackling this organization, so looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

@Jaypers413 (IL): Where would Montas, Johnson and Thompson have ranked?
Matt Eddy: All three appear in the Prospect Handbook in the White Sox chapter. RHP Frankie Montas ranks No. 3, OF Trayce Thompson No. 5 and Micah Johnson No. 8. Montas could be ready for a bullpen role in 2016 if the Dodgers pursue that option. Rival talent evaluators seemed to place stock in Thompson’s two-month stretch in the majors, so he might have found a new level. Johnson will be a fine NL player, especially if he can learn to play LF and CF as well as 2B. If he doesn’t reach his ceiling as a table-setter at least he would have pinch-hit and pinch-run value.

Frank (Chicago): How many of the top ten could make the BA 100?
Matt Eddy: SS Tim Anderson and RHP Carson Fulmer are sure bets. They have high ceilings and performance track records. RHP Spencer Adams would have to be considered at least *a* candidate for the back quarter of the list. I imagine he would make my personal list.

Eric (NY): Keon Barnum - prospect or suspect?
Matt Eddy: A prospect . . . if just barely. It’s hard for teams to walk away from the type of power that Barnum possesses. Contact rate is going to make or break him as a prospect. He actually produces hits and extra bases when he connects, but his SO rate ranked in the 10th percentile for Carolina League batters in 2015.

Chris (Peoria,IL): How far is Micker Aldopho,the 19-year old from being MLB ready?
Matt Eddy: RF Micker Adolfo had as much power as any prospect in the 2013 international signing class, but an injury-wracked 2015 campaign means that he has batted fewer than 300 times in two pro seasons, all in the Arizona League. He has hit .229 with just OK power, so all signs point to him requiring a significant amount of development time. The short-term goal should be staying healthy and producing at Great Falls of the Pioneer League in 2016.

Grant (NYC): Matt, what can you tell us about 3B/SS Johan Cruz? Where is he most likely to settle at on the diamond?
Matt Eddy: Scouts who saw Johan Cruz in the Pioneer League and in instructional league like him best at SS. The White Sox played him mostly at 3B at Great Falls because they wanted to create playing time for 26th-round senior Grant Massey. Cruz has good hands, double-plus arm strength and enough range and adaptability to handle SS. He doesn’t project to have much power or speed, so a best case might be utility infielder, perhaps along the lines of Carlos Sanchez, minus the switch-hit bat but perhaps with better SS instincts.

Karl of Delaware (Georgetown, Delaware): Any hope that the bat of Cleuluis Rondon will pick up in the future? I'm expecting a plunge from his 2015 handbook ranking of 16th best sox prospect.
Matt Eddy: Being new to the system, I had my eye on SS Cleuluis Rondon based on his reputation as a defensive wizard, but, alas, I could not find anybody who thought he would hit enough to reach the majors, even as a utility option. He did not rank in the top 30 this year.

Matt (Naperville, IL): Did Jordan Stephens get considered for your list? Thanks for chatting.
Matt Eddy: The White Sox forfeited their second- and third-round picks in 2015 when they signed free agents Melky Cabrera and David Robertson, so without those extra picks (or bonus pool money), they prioritized college pitchers. They came away with Vanderbilt’s Carson Fulmer (first round), Clemson’s Zack Erwin (fourth) and Rice’s Jordan Stephens (fifth). Chicago ended up trading Erwin to the Athletics to acquire Brett Lawrie, but he appears in the White Sox chapter in the Prospect Handbook, where he ranks behind Stephens, despite going off the board one round earlier. Ultimately, Stephens probably fits best as a high-leverage reliever. He has two plus pitches and a hard-nosed demeanor, and he might have advanced to full-season ball had he not endured a heavy workload at Rice in 2015 or missed 2014 to Tommy John surgery.

Matt C (Future Sox) (Chicago): Hello Matt - nice work on the list. Only big surprise to me is Jacob May at 5. He's got a decent feel to hit and plenty of speed, but hasn't shown much power, hasn't hit well for more than brief stretches, and hasn't got a great arm for CF. Does he look like a future regular to you, or more likely a 4th OF?
Matt Eddy: Double-A CF Jacob May was the toughest player to place in the top 10, and perhaps some of my Southern League bias creeps through. Not that I am biased in favor of the SL so much as I am most familiar with the league after ranking its top 20 prospects in September. Scouts who saw May in that league context came away impressed with his ability to hit, run, get on base via walks and defend CF. Not to mention they view him as a plus makeup/work ethic guy who plays the game intelligently. The way I rationalize his ranking here is that I give him full credit for his pre-concussion performance (.359 OBP in 52 G) but only partial credit for his post work (.295 OBP in 46 G).

DR (East Coast): Is Eddy Alvarez's age the main thing keeping him off the top 10? He's shown outstanding contact and speed for someone who hasn't played competitively in forever
Matt Eddy: High-A Winston-Salem SS Eddy Alvarez was my favorite player to write for the White Sox chapter. You owe it to yourself to Google him to learn about his speed-skating past and recovery from major surgery on both knees. I also love that he just walked on to the Salt Lake CC team and took over as everyday SS while learning to switch-hit. So while Alvarez gave most of his early 20s to speed-skating, he is by no means new to baseball. However, given his diminutive stature, lack of power and probable inability to play SS at the highest levels, he looks like a small ball-oriented second baseman. I’m not writing him off by any means — he has won over many critics — but keep expectations in check. Perhaps he could develop along the lines of the Padres’ Alexi Amarista?

VandyGuy (VandyLand): Obviously Carson Fulmer's delivery and mechanics were divisive in the scouting community--incredibly violent but incredibly successful. Are the Sox trying to tweak his delivery at all, or are they letting Carson be Carson?
Matt Eddy: So many major league starters pitch with deliveries you would never use as a template to teach kids. One White Sox official even cited an all-star MLB starter who lunges at batters in a similar fashion as Fulmer. From what I can gather, the White Sox view Fulmer’s pitching mechanics as part of his essence and that they don’t want to alter his throwing motion so much as they want him to remain tall in his delivery to maintain angle on his pitches.

Derek (Lexington, KY): Courtney Hawkins has consistently fallen since being drafted 1st by the Sox in 2012. He's gone from 1st to 6th to 9th. But he keeps hanging around. What do you think he projects as?
Matt Eddy: Because he doesn’t control the strike zone or run, Double-A LF Courtney Hawkins must make the most of his at-bats that end in him making contact. He did that in 2015 in between DL stints by hitting for extreme power and hitting .335 on balls in play. Multiple sources indicated that Hawkins’ dedication to diet and conditioning improved in 2015, which might be the most positive sign possible. He really doesn’t do enough extra things to profile as a big league reserve, so Hawkins must hit enough to hold down a starting corner OF job.

Greg (Cincy): Why has this org had such a hard time developing profile 3rd basemen?
Matt Eddy: I think it’s equal parts bad luck and just an underappreciation for the unique nature of the skills required to profile as an MLB third baseman. Think about how shallow that pool is. A third basemen must have the reflexes and hands to handle hot smashes, the arm to make throws from the third-base line and he also must be able to produce about 90 to 95 percent (particular in terms of power) as much as a first baseman. Or maybe White Sox fans were spoiled by Robin Ventura and somewhat by Joe Crede!

Connor Reed (Wallingford): Question about recent graduate Carlos Rodon. In the long term, how do you see him compared to last year's other top rookies (McCullers, Syndergaard, E-Rod, Nola, Heaney, Owens, Severino, Norris, Ross, Wisler, etc.)? Does he still realistically have more potential than all of them?
Matt Eddy: My opinion is that Carlos Rodon has more potential than any 2015 rookie pitcher save for Syndergaard. The White Sox like to challenge their prospects, particularly first-round picks, and Rodon pitched just 34 innings in the minors before reaching Chicago. Think about that: that’s less of an apprenticeship than past college hot shots like Tim Lincecum or Stephen Strasburg received. Granted, Chris Sale pitched just 14 minor league innings, but then his first MLB role was relieve, not starter. Rodon showed significant and real second-half improvement in 2015, reducing his walk rate and reducing the rate of hard contact allowed. Thanks to the magic of FanGraphs.com leaderboards, we also can see that Rodon generated swinging strikes about 10% of the time for a rate that ranked him 41st among the 133 starters who recorded 100 innings. He lives in the same neighborhood (in this metric) as Gerrit Cole, Jon Lester, Johnny Cueto and Justin Verlander. Of course, those pitchers throw more strikes and, significantly, more first-pitch strikes. Rodon threw the lowest percentage of first-pitch strikes in this sample … but research has indicated that pitchers can learn this skill, unlike, say learning to throw harder or miss bats.

Derek (Lexington, KY): Eric Johnson used to show up in the Top 10, then he had a terrible 2014. But he bounced back in 2015 with a 2.37 ERA in Charlotte and 3.34 ERA in 6 starts in Chicago. What should the Sox expect from him in 2016?
Matt Eddy: I didn’t dig too deep on RHP Erik Johnson because he exhausted his prospect eligibility in 2014. His pitcher-of-the-year performance in the IL in 2015 is encouraging, but the warning signs here are flashing bright red. He’s a flyball pitcher with poor control in a good hitter’s park. That’s a recipe for trouble.

marc (ny): do the sox's have any good lhp in the minors
Matt Eddy: Losing Carlos Rodon to the majors and Zack Erwin to the Lawrie trade thinned the herd, but Winston-Salem teammates Jordan Guerrero and Brian Clark are quality LH pitching prospects with enough velocity and feel for secondary stuff to project to major league roles. Jace Fry, the 2014 third-rounder from Oregon State, also showed promise but he had most of his 2015 wiped out by his second career Tommy John surgery.

Derek (Lexington, KY): What is the percent chance Tim Anderson is starting SS at Opening Day? Then All-Star Break? Then September?
Matt Eddy: You will definitely see Tim Anderson in Chicago in 2016, but I get the sense that won’t be until June or later. The White Sox will surely want to see how Brett Lawrie adjusts to playing 2B every day, and the team has insured itself against a lack of SS options by importing minor league FAs Andy Parrino and Steve Lombardozzi to have as backups to Tyler Saladino.

@SoxNerd (SoxVille USA): The acquisition of 3 veteran catchers must speak to the fact that Sox don't think they have any prospects at the position who are close. Agree? And, who are the catchers who are closest to being MLB ready?
Matt Eddy: Catcher is definitely an area of weakness in the system. I think they view Rob Brantly as the best internal option, but he suffered through an injury year in 2015. Alex Avila and Dioner Navarro figure to hand the torch over to Brantly in 2017. The best of the rest are are all impossibly far from the majors: 2015 12th-rounder Seby Zavala, DSL catcher Carlos Perez and the Arizona League’s Jhoandro Alfaro (who is Jorge’s little brother).

EB (Washington, DC): How heavily did Adam Engel's AFL performance weigh in his grade? Does BA think he can be a starting caliber CF?
Matt Eddy: I had written all the top 10 reports before the AFL season ended. Don’t forget: Engel ranked No. 10 prior to the Todd Frazier trade that stripped Montas, Thompson and Johnson from the top 10.



Joe Random (San Jose): Where will Tim Anderson fall in your top 50 overall prospect list? top 25?
Matt Eddy: I had him in the 31-40 range as I recall.

Derek (KY): Where do you rank the Sox system as a whole, compared to other major league teams?
Matt Eddy: The Frazier and Lawrie trade cost them one Top 100-caliber prospect (Montas) and really reduced the level of depth. They are now a 21-30, bottom-third system.

Dan (Mid-Atlantic): Trey Michalczewski has always been young for his level and held his own. Any chance there is 20-25 HR power in that bat?
Matt Eddy: Yes, Michalczewski has an intriguing blend of present ability and projection based on maturity/strength gains. He has benefited IMO from spending one full year at each Class A stop. I would set 15-20 as a more reasonable goal. Trivia — here are the switch-hitters who have gone deep 20 times in a season since 2013: Victor Martinez, Mark Teixeira (twice), Carlos Santana (twice), Carlos Beltran, Neil Walker, Kendrys Morales (twice), Coco Crisp (!), Nick Swisher, Matt Wieters and Justin Smoak.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:22 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
As a neutral observer, the Sox are building a nice farm system.


Matt and you do not see eye to eye...

Matt Eddy: The Frazier and Lawrie trade cost them one Top 100-caliber prospect (Montas) and really reduced the level of depth. They are now a 21-30, bottom-third system.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:28 pm 
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Weren't they top 10 last offseason? How much weight was given to Rodon?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:32 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Weren't they top 10 last offseason? How much weight was given to Rodon?


In BRicks unbiased observer role, yes.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:39 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Weren't they top 10 last offseason? How much weight was given to Rodon?



2013=29
2014=22
2015=20

Rodon was #15 overall
Anderson #92
Spencer Adams, #100

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:42 pm 
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THE INQUISITOR wrote:
Nas wrote:
Weren't they top 10 last offseason? How much weight was given to Rodon?



2013=29
2014=22
2015=20

Rodon was #15 overall
Anderson #92
Spencer Adams, #100


Okay I thought there was a thread that ranked their system higher.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:43 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
Nas wrote:
Weren't they top 10 last offseason? How much weight was given to Rodon?


In BRicks unbiased observer role, yes.


I love how Mr. 2005 became unbiased.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:46 pm 
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I don't think they were top 10 overall last year even with Rodon.

I feel like I say this every year, but the Sox have 3 prospects who are pretty damn good and then a steaming load of shit until they get down to the fringes of the top 30. Teams really want 2 or more prospects in the consensus top 100 unless they are in 100% go-for-it mode. So at least the Sox have that.

It's from 4 to about 20 that it's a wasteland. Engel, Michalczewski, Guerrero, Danish and Hawkins are OK to have in a top 20 and maybe one sneaks on at the back end of a top 10 (Engel would probably be that guy); but they make up some of the best 2nd tier prospects in the system. Those are really 3rd tier guys right now, Hawkins and Danish may be lower though Danish's youth still bouys his stock.

But then you get another step down to the fresh out of HS and Latin signings and things actually look pretty good. Zangari (inexplicably 10th on BA's list), Adolfo, Perez, Tatis, it's really an impressive collection of potential. They may be all lottery tickets at this point but that's what you want once you get past your top 25 or 30 prospects.

Sox just have no depth in the minors right now. Hopefully they sign Cespedes and keep the pick because 3 top 50 picks is exactly what the farm needs.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:39 pm 
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Someone should have said the Sox wont change their ways as long as Jerry is alive.

Oh wait, someone did!

Why would anyone expect them to rebuild now? Jerry is teeing off on the 17th hole of life, he has more money than he knows what to do with, each investor in the Sox has made more than 20X's their investments, even with the cash calls.

The family couldnt be anymore set with ownership of the UC and we wont even mention the money made from the Bulls.

Why would you at this point go low...would not be surpised to see a $60 mill deal to Cespedes. Maybe even $25 mill , 20 mill, 15 mill...or the classic bonus deal.

Jerry would probably pay $500K per HR, with a $1m base, if the union would allow it.

Dont disagree with it either at this point. You keep going for it now.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:08 pm 
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There is a vast difference between tanking for a half decade and maintaining a decent farm system. Ideally the Sox would have 1 or 2 position players every year they could slide in with reasonable expectations of success. Not 9 new players, not an entirely new team, just cheap callups.

Luckily this will be The Year of Anderson, hope he doesn't suck when he's starting at SS in June.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:45 am 
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Where does the White Sox farm system rank? Anyone have the last 5 years or so to show how it's progressing?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:38 am 
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Currently bottom 3rd, and closer the the middle tier than the "absolutely barrens" like San Diego and Detroit.

Kenny Williams (we know he is behind these trades) has traded nine top 30 talents the last two offseasons and the Sox graduated 3 top 30 guys last season. The only replenishment the system has seen in that time was from a comp pick gutted draft class that has already been partly dealt. So it's been a lot of attrition without much coming back for about a year and a half. About a 3rd of the would-be top 30 is gone, that's a lot to absorb.

If they hold on to all their picks for the 2016 draft and some guys further down the pole break out they'll climb to around 15. Of course if the Sox are any good next season Kenny will deal some of them at the deadline.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:40 am 
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And over the last 5 years the farm system has gotten more talented in spite of Kenny/Hahn's trade frenzies, and the Sox aren't even reaping any benefits (yet) from the post-Wilder fiasco international market.

The Sox have been drafting very well the last few years.


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