Butler kind of brought the increased level of scrutiny on himself though. He pulled another get on team Butler manuever this past weekend. They sure know whom to find whenever they want a favorable article written.

It is becoming rather obvious that he is more concerned about being the best player on the team. He plays hard but he is a selfish player.

It's obvious that he wants a Butler centric offense. No doubt about it. Rose isn't the problem currently. They are not losing because of him. Last yr yeah. Earlier this yr arguable. Not right now. That dog ain't hunting. He is playing better and he is competing. He is showing that he has pride.

It's interesting that he is now getting criticized for attacking the basket. Previously he was attacked for shooting too many 3's. Before that he was criticized for not scoring.

S.A, G.S., and Cleveland have backups that are better than Moore and Gibson. Ponder that for a second.

LTG whats your thing with Butler though. I think most everyone would agree he's not a franchise guy, so not sure where that came from. The team sucks even if Butler and Rose play well. BTW they enough to make the finals last year. Same with this year. That's why it's fair to hold Hoiberg to that expectation.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

The more Bulls lose, the greater Tom Thibodeau looks

The great thing about sports debates as opposed to, say, political debates is that arguments are often validated and won with statistical evidence not blathering rhetoric.

For example …

Phil Jackson coached 20 seasons in the NBA and never missed making the playoffs. His teams won 11 NBA titles, more than any other coach, and he is the only coach in history—five-plus seasons—who has won more than 70 percent of his games. If he’s not considered the NBA’s greatest coach, the Zenmaster is in the discussion.

For all of Jackson’s greatness, though, he never coached a season without Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Kobe Bryant or Shaquille O’Neal on his roster. Each are easily NBA Top 50 all-time players. In 12 of his 20 years, he had the Jordan-Pippen or Kobe-Shaq tandem and won almost three-quarters (.741) of his games. In the eight seasons Jackson coached without either dynamic duo, his win percentage slipped to .647. Remember that number.

Gregg Popovich is also a name tossed around in the greatest-coach debate. (Let’s eliminate Red Auerbach and K.C. Jones from the discussion because even Fred Hoiberg could have won with those loaded Celtics teams.) Popovich has a .691 win percentage, trailing only Jackson and Billy Cunningham (.698) among coaches with five-plus years.

Like Phil, Pops has also been endowed with great players. All 20 of his Spurs rosters have included either David Robinson or Tim Duncan or both. But, Popovich’s rookie season, Robinson went down with an injury six games into the season. The Will Perdue-led Spurs finished 20-62. It was the only time Popovich missed the playoffs.

Which brings us to Tom Thibodeau, who took the Bulls to the playoffs in each of his five seasons.

With Derrick Rose in the lineup, Thibs’ Bulls were 132-49 (.729), 25 percentage points better than Jackson’s lifetime mark. Without the 2011 MVP, Thibs’ record dropped to 123-90 (.577). Rose will likely never be an NBA Top 50 all-time player, nor will Joakim Noah, Luol Deng, Jimmy Butler or any of Thibs’ other Bulls. Gasol might be close, but he arrived in Chicago at age 34.

Point is, through five seasons of on-again-off-again Rose, Thibs posted a combined .647 win percentage.

Bingo!

So, with or without his one “great” player, Thibs won as often as Phil Jackson did in his Pippen-minus-MJ and Kobe-minus-Shaq seasons.

Enter Fred Hoiberg.

Inheriting Thibs’ same players plus a solid rookie in Bobby Portis, Hoiberg’s Bulls are .519 coming out of the All-Star break. With games Thursday and Friday against the Cavs and Raptors, the Bulls could be .500 by the weekend.

We were led to believe this was a championship roster. Thibs was passing the baton to a coach whose offensive mind would take them from Point A to Point C. Problem is, opponents are getting 100-plus points every night of that journey.

Other than the injury to Mike Dunleavy, the Bulls started the season as healthy as they have been in years. There was no reason for this team to lapse, but they have.

Some might argue that Thibs would win the regular season and limp out of the playoffs. Before Rose went down with the first knee injury against the 76ers in 2012 playoffs, Thibodeau was 10-7 in the playoffs.

Interestingly, Thibs, who is constantly accused of wearing down his stars, played Rose a little more than 40 minutes per game in their first playoffs together. In the two previous seasons, Vinny Del Negro used Rose 44.7 and a league-high 42.4 in 2010.

Thibs had a “healthy” Rose for just a dozen more playoff games during his final three seasons, and the lame-duck coach still managed to finish 6-6 in last season’s playoffs despite all the dysfunction.

Jackson went 11-9 the two seasons after Jordan’s first retirement and was 4-8 with the Lakers after Shaq’s departure.

The way the Bulls are going right now, we might not ever know if Hoiberg’s laid-back approach leads to playoff success. In fact, if the Bulls continue down this path, they just might make the case for Thibs being the greatest coach in NBA history.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/basketball/ ... ba-history

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bulls/post/_/id/23079/bulls-recent-play-has-been-embarrassing-in-lost-season

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

When we're making an argument about how tough Hoiberg has had it and we focus on the loss of a guy like Mirotic we've already lost. He has sucked for pretty much the entire season. Who are the top 7 players this year and who were the top 7 players during the other years

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

If you're a fan of the Bull you should be able to figure it out.

Mirotic was a starter this season so obviously he counts in that top 7. It is safe to say that Etwaun Moore wasn't in that top 7.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bulls/post/_/id/23079/bulls-recent-play-has-been-embarrassing-in-lost-season

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

You posted this so you should provide the list. I shouldn't have to guess. Using the absence of Mirotic to try to make the point that Hoiberg has had it tough is laughable. Arguably his absence helps the team.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

What 180 feet?

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

Look at this team play a game or ten.

You don't even have to know the scores or the record to judge him.

He has lost the team. He may never have had the team. You have back up point guards showing up the coach. You have the entire team vocalizing the lack of coaching and team effort. You've got slow paced, defensive teams like Miami out hoiballing the Bulls. Embarrassing.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

I never knew that a guy receiving 2 techs for arguing with refs was showing up the coach.

He didn't argue anything on his second tech. He shouted "And one!" at Payton after scoring on a drive. And he skipped past the Bulls bench without showing any remorse. He seemed elated. Watch the video.

When coach wants you to finish the game in a blowout, and you quickly get two technicals to get yourself out of playing in a bad blowout...you're showing up your coach.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

LTG is an anarchist. I don't even know why he votes in elections when, according to his logic on the irrelevance of coaches, all that's really needed is a talented cabinet and judicial branch. Stewardship, leadership, culture/environment, etc., is all psychobabble.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

Maybe Vegan can explain NBA culture to you. Guys getting thrown out during blowouts are as old as one of Wilt Chamberlain's headbands. I didn't know they were supposed to check in with the coach before exiting the arena. Thanks for enlightening me on that point.

just read Duh Mayor the only coach not to be T'ed up all year! WTF

I am not a legal expert, how many times do I have to say it?

The future holds the possibility to be great or terrible, and since it has not yet occurred it remains simultaneously both.

long time guy, what do you want the Bulls to be? You don't like their best coach since Jackson. You don't like the best performer on the team. What exactly do you want to work with here?

long time guy, what do you want the Bulls to be? You don't like their best coach since Jackson. You don't like the best performer on the team. What exactly do you want to work with here?

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

CH calling out someone for being negative? 1st the Pasta Rocky GIF......now this. Weird times at the CSFMB.

I have MANY years of experience in trying to appreciate steaming piles of dogshit.