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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:03 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Sanders has strongly implied that both Obama and Hillary are corporate sell outs, in addition to party status quo backers. Hillary supporters here and elsewhere either dont comprehend this critique or don't care. In the case of the latter, it isn't their votes Bernie is seeking.



Being a Hillary or Obama critic does not make him qualified to be President. The guy basically admitted that he didn't have a plan to break up the banks. I guarantee you that Hillary would if it were a central theme of her campaign.



:lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:05 pm 
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Nas wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Sanders has strongly implied that both Obama and Hillary are corporate sell outs, in addition to party status quo backers. Hillary supporters here and elsewhere either dont comprehend this critique or don't care. In the case of the latter, it isn't their votes Bernie is seeking.


If he believes that he should say it. You know why he won't? He's a career politician who has never offered any alternatives to the policies of the status quo. His knowledge of these things appears to be limited to rehearsed soundbites. That's truly pathetic after 40 years as a politician and nearly 30 in Washington.



You just saying things does not make them true...

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/6/1 ... -Us-Lately

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:07 pm 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
What this exposed is that Sanders is just another career politician.

Same bullshit, different voice.

And that sound is the sound of a million millennials Twitter accounts weeping.


I'm not sure what part of the interview you are referencing, but Sanders' responses about Wall Street were largely correct and logical.

The notion that he is uninformed on this matter stems from the misguided nature of the questions he was asked--or at least the assumptions governing them.

Sanders was right in asserting that Dodd-Frank gives the Treasury a great deal of authority to divide big banks into smaller entities. This power is derived from the position the Secretary of the Treasury occupies as chair of the Financial Stability Oversight Council.

While the Federal Reserve also has partial authority to break up big banks under Dodd-Frank, the follow-up question about the Federal Reserve was not relevant to Sanders' initial statement. Based on the way the question was asked, it's not clear the questioner understands the distinction between the Fed and the Treasury.

Sanders' belief that the president should not decide how a large financial institution is subdivided makes sense--at least based on recent historical precedent. When the federal government deemed AT&T a monopoly in the 1980s, for example, it was reconfigured based on a plan formulated by the company's leadership. The government simply set a size limit that the new companies could not exceed following break up.


So the guy who has criticized Dodd Frank and wants to get rid of Dodd Frank is now going to use Dodd Frank? He sounded clueless.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:11 pm 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
You are over-rating Bernie's influence.
He may be stealing votes, but I would bet 7 out of 10 Democratic voters still think only the Republicans are owned by Corporate America. Ask them right now and they'd say the current POTUS isn't one of those corporate puppets.

The GOP will implode and the Democratic party will flourish. No one is taking it back.


You are underrating Bernie as a vessel for the expression of deep political anger within the Democratic party.

There is a reason that Bernie is pulling in 70-80% of the under-40 vote.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:12 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
What this exposed is that Sanders is just another career politician.

Same bullshit, different voice.

And that sound is the sound of a million millennials Twitter accounts weeping.


I'm not sure what part of the interview you are referencing, but Sanders' responses about Wall Street were largely correct and logical.

The notion that he is uninformed on this matter stems from the misguided nature of the questions he was asked--or at least the assumptions governing them.

Sanders was right in asserting that Dodd-Frank gives the Treasury a great deal of authority to divide big banks into smaller entities. This power is derived from the position the Secretary of the Treasury occupies as chair of the Financial Stability Oversight Council.

While the Federal Reserve also has partial authority to break up big banks under Dodd-Frank, the follow-up question about the Federal Reserve was not relevant to Sanders' initial statement. Based on the way the question was asked, it's not clear the questioner understands the distinction between the Fed and the Treasury.

Sanders' belief that the president should not decide how a large financial institution is subdivided makes sense--at least based on recent historical precedent. When the federal government deemed AT&T a monopoly in the 1980s, for example, it was reconfigured based on a plan formulated by the company's leadership. The government simply set a size limit that the new companies could not exceed following break up.


So the guy who has criticized Dodd Frank and wants to get rid of Dodd Frank is now going to use Dodd Frank? He sounded clueless.


Sanders wants stronger financial regulations passed, but he can certainly make use of Dodd-Frank, as he stated in the interview.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:14 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Nas wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Sanders has strongly implied that both Obama and Hillary are corporate sell outs, in addition to party status quo backers. Hillary supporters here and elsewhere either dont comprehend this critique or don't care. In the case of the latter, it isn't their votes Bernie is seeking.


If he believes that he should say it. You know why he won't? He's a career politician who has never offered any alternatives to the policies of the status quo. His knowledge of these things appears to be limited to rehearsed soundbites. That's truly pathetic after 40 years as a politician and nearly 30 in Washington.



You just saying things does not make them true...

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/6/1 ... -Us-Lately



Really? That reads like crap people would put on their resume or like Kasich taking credit for things that he happened to be around for. Where are all of these proposals he's talked about on the campaign? Where is his major piece of legislation? A bill to help "DA VETS"?

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:16 pm 
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Nas wrote:
"DA VETS"?


Wow, that red name is really starting to rub off, huh?

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:18 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
Whether you agree with Sanders or not isn't the question....fact it, he's a lifetime politician and opportunist. I look at Ron Paul the same way, and Rand seems to be doing his best to follow. I agree with much of what Bernie says. I agree with much of what Rand Paul says.....doesn't mean they will do it. Most of it they CAN'T.

The party had to run someone in the primary against HILL. Bernie just performed better than anyone ever expected. His only shot is if HILL gets in real legal trouble.


Bernie has started a movement to take the party back from the corporate elite. That is a huge accomplishment.


WILL. NOT. HAPPEN.

The people started a movement. It just happened to be behind a guy that wasn't a believer himself. The kids will go away after the election just like they did in 2008.


Many of the "kids" who supported Obama became involved with Occupy, Black Lives Matter, and the Sanders campaign. The kids haven't gone away yet, and seem to be getting more radical as time passes.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:21 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
There is a reason that Bernie is pulling in 70-80% of the under-40 vote.
The fact that he built his economic policy around giving them a bunch of free stuff?

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:22 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
Whether you agree with Sanders or not isn't the question....fact it, he's a lifetime politician and opportunist. I look at Ron Paul the same way, and Rand seems to be doing his best to follow. I agree with much of what Bernie says. I agree with much of what Rand Paul says.....doesn't mean they will do it. Most of it they CAN'T.

The party had to run someone in the primary against HILL. Bernie just performed better than anyone ever expected. His only shot is if HILL gets in real legal trouble.


Bernie has started a movement to take the party back from the corporate elite. That is a huge accomplishment.


WILL. NOT. HAPPEN.

The people started a movement. It just happened to be behind a guy that wasn't a believer himself. The kids will go away after the election just like they did in 2008.


Many of the "kids" who supported Obama became involved with Occupy, Black Lives Matter, and the Sanders campaign. The kids haven't gone away yet, and seem to be getting more radical as time passes.


I would love them to find a guy/gal who is a believer and can offer up more than soundbites. Maybe it's Elizabeth Warren. I know it is not Bernie Sanders or Obama.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:23 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
There is a reason that Bernie is pulling in 70-80% of the under-40 vote.
The fact that he built his economic policy around giving them a bunch of free stuff?


That's not at all a broad brush. I'm sure there isn't a single Bernie supporter alive who just likes him because they think he's principled or that he isn't bought and paid for. It's just all the "free stuff."

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:25 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
There is a reason that Bernie is pulling in 70-80% of the under-40 vote.
The fact that he built his economic policy around giving them a bunch of free stuff?


That's not at all a broad brush. I'm sure there isn't a single Bernie supporter alive who just likes him because they think he's principled or that he isn't bought and paid for. It's just all the "free stuff."


He isn't principled. He has been bought and paid for by the Democratic Party. What's left?

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:26 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
There is a reason that Bernie is pulling in 70-80% of the under-40 vote.
The fact that he built his economic policy around giving them a bunch of free stuff?


That's not at all a broad brush. I'm sure there isn't a single Bernie supporter alive who just likes him because they think he's principled or that he isn't bought and paid for. It's just all the "free stuff."
It's one of the primary messages of his whole campaign. I think it's ok to say that it is one of the major reasons for his support by that age group.

Do we honestly think that the under 40 crowd says "I've been waiting all my life for a candidate who will do a microtax on every stock trade"? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:27 pm 
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Nas wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
There is a reason that Bernie is pulling in 70-80% of the under-40 vote.
The fact that he built his economic policy around giving them a bunch of free stuff?


That's not at all a broad brush. I'm sure there isn't a single Bernie supporter alive who just likes him because they think he's principled or that he isn't bought and paid for. It's just all the "free stuff."


He isn't principled. He has been bought and paid for by the Democratic Party. What's left?



You know, it's okay to talk about why your candidate is good rather than just taking personal attacks at the other guy (many of which are nonsensical). I know that's not how Hillary operates, but maybe her supporters can.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:28 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
There is a reason that Bernie is pulling in 70-80% of the under-40 vote.
The fact that he built his economic policy around giving them a bunch of free stuff?


That's not at all a broad brush. I'm sure there isn't a single Bernie supporter alive who just likes him because they think he's principled or that he isn't bought and paid for. It's just all the "free stuff."
It's one of the primary messages of his whole campaign. I think it's ok to say that it is one of the major reasons for his support by that age group.

Do we honestly think that the under 40 crowd says "I've been waiting all my life for a candidate who will do a microtax on every stock trade"? :lol:


I'm glad you can read the minds of all Sanders' supporters. Believe it or not, many people think differently than you do.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:29 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
There is a reason that Bernie is pulling in 70-80% of the under-40 vote.
The fact that he built his economic policy around giving them a bunch of free stuff?


That's not at all a broad brush. I'm sure there isn't a single Bernie supporter alive who just likes him because they think he's principled or that he isn't bought and paid for. It's just all the "free stuff."
It's one of the primary messages of his whole campaign. I think it's ok to say that it is one of the major reasons for his support by that age group.

Do we honestly think that the under 40 crowd says "I've been waiting all my life for a candidate who will do a microtax on every stock trade"? :lol:


His message resonates with the group of people, under 40 or not, who believe the economy is rigged in favor of the ultra wealthy. That's a message more about accountability before the law and fairness than it is about handouts.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:35 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
His message resonates with the group of people, under 40 or not, who believe the economy is rigged in favor of the ultra wealthy. That's a message more about accountability before the law and fairness than it is about handouts.
Why should I believe this though?

He is the one who chose to make a large part of his platform about handouts. Is it not fair to think that many under 40 looked at those things and said "Ok, that is great. I like this Sanders guy!".

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:36 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
You are over-rating Bernie's influence.
He may be stealing votes, but I would bet 7 out of 10 Democratic voters still think only the Republicans are owned by Corporate America. Ask them right now and they'd say the current POTUS isn't one of those corporate puppets.

The GOP will implode and the Democratic party will flourish. No one is taking it back.


You are underrating Bernie as a vessel for the expression of deep political anger within the Democratic party.

There is a reason that Bernie is pulling in 70-80% of the under-40 vote.



This renders him to be nothing more than a run of the mill protest candidate. In the immortal words of one Hawk Harrelson " he is all hat no cattle".

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:37 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:


You know, it's okay to talk about why your candidate is good rather than just taking personal attacks at the other guy (many of which are nonsensical). I know that's not how Hillary operates, but maybe her supporters can.


Hillary isn't claiming to be a revolutionary candidate. I am comfortable with what she is and what she isn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:42 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
His message resonates with the group of people, under 40 or not, who believe the economy is rigged in favor of the ultra wealthy. That's a message more about accountability before the law and fairness than it is about handouts.
Why should I believe this though?

He is the one who chose to make a large part of his platform about handouts. Is it not fair to think that many under 40 looked at those things and said "Ok, that is great. I like this Sanders guy!".



As long as you're comfortable making sweeping generalizations without a single fact, statistic, or even anecdotal evidence to support your point.

I don't know the ages of many, but vegan, RPB, and myself are all sub-40 Bernie "supporters." Do you think we just want free stuff?

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:45 pm 
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Changing laws and policies that favor the ultra rich
vs.
Handouts for all


Are these the same thing?

Do we want to change the rigged for ultra rich system?

Is it rigged?


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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:47 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
You are over-rating Bernie's influence.
He may be stealing votes, but I would bet 7 out of 10 Democratic voters still think only the Republicans are owned by Corporate America. Ask them right now and they'd say the current POTUS isn't one of those corporate puppets.

The GOP will implode and the Democratic party will flourish. No one is taking it back.


You are underrating Bernie as a vessel for the expression of deep political anger within the Democratic party.

There is a reason that Bernie is pulling in 70-80% of the under-40 vote.



This renders him to be nothing more than a run of the mill protest candidate. In the immortal words of one Hawk Harrelson " he is all hat no cattle".


I don't think so. There is a Civil War taking place within the Democratic Party, just as there is in the Republican Party. On both sides, the grass roots are revolting against the Corporate Establishment. Even when the primaries end, the struggle will continue.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:47 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
His message resonates with the group of people, under 40 or not, who believe the economy is rigged in favor of the ultra wealthy. That's a message more about accountability before the law and fairness than it is about handouts.
Why should I believe this though?

He is the one who chose to make a large part of his platform about handouts. Is it not fair to think that many under 40 looked at those things and said "Ok, that is great. I like this Sanders guy!".



As long as you're comfortable making sweeping generalizations without a single fact, statistic, or even anecdotal evidence to support your point.

I don't know the ages of many, but vegan, RPB, and myself are all sub-40 Bernie "supporters." Do you think we just want free stuff?


I truly think you believe that he is principled and not bought and paid for despite all evidence to the contrary. This is also what many nonracist Trump supporters love about him.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:56 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
What this exposed is that Sanders is just another career politician.

Same bullshit, different voice.

And that sound is the sound of a million millennials Twitter accounts weeping.


I'm not sure what part of the interview you are referencing, but Sanders' responses about Wall Street were largely correct and logical.

The notion that he is uninformed on this matter stems from the misguided nature of the questions he was asked--or at least the assumptions governing them.

Sanders was right in asserting that Dodd-Frank gives the Treasury a great deal of authority to divide big banks into smaller entities. This power is derived from the position the Secretary of the Treasury occupies as chair of the Financial Stability Oversight Council.

While the Federal Reserve also has partial authority to break up big banks under Dodd-Frank, the follow-up question about the Federal Reserve was not relevant to Sanders' initial statement. Based on the way the question was asked, it's not clear the questioner understands the distinction between the Fed and the Treasury.

Sanders' belief that the president should not decide how a large financial institution is subdivided makes sense--at least based on recent historical precedent. When the federal government deemed AT&T a monopoly in the 1980s, for example, it was reconfigured based on a plan formulated by the company's leadership. The government simply set a size limit that the new companies could not exceed following break up.


So the guy who has criticized Dodd Frank and wants to get rid of Dodd Frank is now going to use Dodd Frank? He sounded clueless.

This is a pretty high standard

If you have any critique of part of an existing law or regulation, you must never use it under any circumstances?


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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:57 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Changing laws and policies that favor the ultra rich
vs.
Handouts for all


Are these the same thing?

Do we want to change the rigged for ultra rich system?

Is it rigged?
So you do you think his platform of handouts is bad?

It seems like you guys are saying "It's unfair to concentrate on X, instead concentrate on Y" when both of them are major components of his platform.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:02 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Changing laws and policies that favor the ultra rich
vs.
Handouts for all


Are these the same thing?

Do we want to change the rigged for ultra rich system?

Is it rigged?
So you do you think his platform of handouts is bad?

It seems like you guys are saying "It's unfair to concentrate on X, instead concentrate on Y" when both of them are major components of his platform.

I thought it was pretty clear I was questioning your assessment of his platform as being "handouts"

Is the wage gap a problem? If so, should we try and fix it?

I see the platform as restoring some balance to the classes and helping regular people instead of serving the ultra rich.


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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:11 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Nas wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
What this exposed is that Sanders is just another career politician.

Same bullshit, different voice.

And that sound is the sound of a million millennials Twitter accounts weeping.


I'm not sure what part of the interview you are referencing, but Sanders' responses about Wall Street were largely correct and logical.

The notion that he is uninformed on this matter stems from the misguided nature of the questions he was asked--or at least the assumptions governing them.

Sanders was right in asserting that Dodd-Frank gives the Treasury a great deal of authority to divide big banks into smaller entities. This power is derived from the position the Secretary of the Treasury occupies as chair of the Financial Stability Oversight Council.

While the Federal Reserve also has partial authority to break up big banks under Dodd-Frank, the follow-up question about the Federal Reserve was not relevant to Sanders' initial statement. Based on the way the question was asked, it's not clear the questioner understands the distinction between the Fed and the Treasury.

Sanders' belief that the president should not decide how a large financial institution is subdivided makes sense--at least based on recent historical precedent. When the federal government deemed AT&T a monopoly in the 1980s, for example, it was reconfigured based on a plan formulated by the company's leadership. The government simply set a size limit that the new companies could not exceed following break up.


So the guy who has criticized Dodd Frank and wants to get rid of Dodd Frank is now going to use Dodd Frank? He sounded clueless.

This is a pretty high standard

If you have any critique of part of an existing law or regulation, you must never use it under any circumstances?


He's set that with his rhetoric.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:06 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
I thought it was pretty clear I was questioning your assessment of his platform as being "handouts"
I think a lot of his support comes from that.

I'm just unlikely to believe that so many young people are like "Microtaxes on stock trades! Hell yes!".

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:08 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
I thought it was pretty clear I was questioning your assessment of his platform as being "handouts"
I think a lot of his support comes from that.

I'm just unlikely to believe that so many young people are like "Microtaxes on stock trades! Hell yes!".


What? You keep saying that like it's insightful, but you're just boiling down his entire message to microtaxes on stocks. It doesn't even make sense. Are they allowed to care about any of his platform that's not just microtaxes on stock trades?

Do you characterize Hillary supporters as saying "Legislation for the establishment of the Kate Mullaney National Historic Site! Hell yes!"?

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:13 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
What? You keep saying that like it's insightful, but you're just boiling down his entire message to microtaxes on stocks. It doesn't even make sense. Are they allowed to care about any of his platform that's not just microtaxes on stock trades?
So what specific policy proposals get the under 40 crowd excited?

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