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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:39 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:

Sanders has been clear about revamping the healthcare system. Admittedly he's dodged the question of replacing Obamacare, but whether or not you agree with him the least one can say is that hes clear about the system he wants.


I think you COMPLETELY missed the point. He has been clear about wanting a single payer system for a while. He said that he wouldn't vote for ACA if it didn't have a public option. In the end his vote was needed to pass the bill. He simply added an amendment to it (to save face) and voted for it. He voted for something he is fundamentally opposed to because his vote was needed. Now he wants to repeal and replace the bill he voted for with something he wanted all along. He doesn't say "repeal and replace" because it would hurt him with Obama's voters.


I agree - he is a politician after all, and that's the game he plays. I'm not sure who would dispute that Sanders plays politics like most other folks in the senate and house. The bigger point I think is that he is not in politics to enrich himself. He's proven that by refusing to take money from the types of special interest entities that could make his life very comfortable after he's done with politics. For an example of the latter I'd check out Hastert (on my mind since he's been in the news recently). The Clintons are another example.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:49 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:

Sanders has been clear about revamping the healthcare system. Admittedly he's dodged the question of replacing Obamacare, but whether or not you agree with him the least one can say is that hes clear about the system he wants.


I think you COMPLETELY missed the point. He has been clear about wanting a single payer system for a while. He said that he wouldn't vote for ACA if it didn't have a public option. In the end his vote was needed to pass the bill. He simply added an amendment to it (to save face) and voted for it. He voted for something he is fundamentally opposed to because his vote was needed. Now he wants to repeal and replace the bill he voted for with something he wanted all along. He doesn't say "repeal and replace" because it would hurt him with Obama's voters.


I agree - he is a politician after all, and that's the game he plays. I'm not sure who would dispute that Sanders plays politics like most other folks in the senate and house. The bigger point I think is that he is not in politics to enrich himself. He's proven that by refusing to take money from the types of special interest entities that could make his life very comfortable after he's done with politics. For an example of the latter I'd check out Hastert (on my mind since he's been in the news recently). The Clintons are another example.


I agree like Biden and a few others he hasn't gotten rich with outside deals. That really is great.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:51 pm 
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Nas wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:

Sanders has been clear about revamping the healthcare system. Admittedly he's dodged the question of replacing Obamacare, but whether or not you agree with him the least one can say is that hes clear about the system he wants.


I think you COMPLETELY missed the point. He has been clear about wanting a single payer system for a while. He said that he wouldn't vote for ACA if it didn't have a public option. In the end his vote was needed to pass the bill. He simply added an amendment to it (to save face) and voted for it. He voted for something he is fundamentally opposed to because his vote was needed. Now he wants to repeal and replace the bill he voted for with something he wanted all along. He doesn't say "repeal and replace" because it would hurt him with Obama's voters.


He actually says he thinks it was good legislation but needs to go further.

I'm sure if he said "repeal and replace", Hillary would call him a racist again.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:33 am 
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Won 8 of last 9, I call that momentum.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:43 am 
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312player wrote:
Won 8 of last 9, I call that momentum.



Bernie Sanders won again Saturday — and still lost.

The Vermont senator took ­Wyoming by an impressive 12 percentage-point margin in statewide caucuses, beating Clinton 56-44 percent.

But under the Democratic party’s oddball delegate system, Sanders’ winning streak — he has won seven out of the past eight contests — counts for little.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:03 am 
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If every state was winner take all Hillary's lead would be even bigger.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:14 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
312player wrote:
Won 8 of last 9, I call that momentum.



Bernie Sanders won again Saturday — and still lost.

The Vermont senator took ­Wyoming by an impressive 12 percentage-point margin in statewide caucuses, beating Clinton 56-44 percent.

But under the Democratic party’s oddball delegate system, Sanders’ winning streak — he has won seven out of the past eight contests — counts for little.


Another Caucus win for Sanders. If he takes New York then it's fair to say that he has "monentum". I prefer to refer to this latest surge in "Bernie mania" as relevance. His supporters/bashers of Hillary are attempting to keep the guy relevant. He is done. This race has been over for a while now. He should remain in the race as long as he see fit. This by no means should be taken as a sign that he has shot to win. It's over for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:33 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
312player wrote:
Won 8 of last 9, I call that momentum.



Bernie Sanders won again Saturday — and still lost.

The Vermont senator took ­Wyoming by an impressive 12 percentage-point margin in statewide caucuses, beating Clinton 56-44 percent.

But under the Democratic party’s oddball delegate system, Sanders’ winning streak — he has won seven out of the past eight contests — counts for little.


Another Caucus win for Sanders. If he takes New York then it's fair to say that he has "monentum". I prefer to refer to this latest surge in "Bernie mania" as relevance. His supporters/bashers of Hillary are attempting to keep the guy relevant. He is done. This race has been over for a while now. He should remain in the race as long as he see fit. This by no means should be taken as a sign that he has shot to win. It's over for him.


So 8 of 9 is not momentum?

Are you Dan Bernstein?

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:36 pm 
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I agree that he's long been out of the race, but I believe the bigger point here is that he's right on numerous, extremely important issues, campaign finance being one of them. And to have him run a legitimate campaign like this while garnering the attention he's been able to without the aid of a super pac is also extremely important, regardless of whether he wins or not. Irrespective of ideology or platform, this is how a campaign should probably be run.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:01 am 
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Nas wrote:
If every state was winner take all Hillary's lead would be even bigger.


She already has nearly every other rule written in her favor, maybe she can have Debbie Wasserman-Schultz rig this one up as well. A nice gig with the Clinton Foundation a few years down the line should do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:55 am 
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Nas wrote:
If every state was winner take all Hillary's lead would be even bigger.


Calm down, brah.

Eight years of Hillary is inevitable, not unlike an uncomfortable bowel movement following a trip to White Castle.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:13 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
If every state was winner take all Hillary's lead would be even bigger.


Calm down, brah.

Eight years of Hillary is inevitable, not unlike an uncomfortable bowel movement following a trip to White Castle.


I look forward to seeing you become a Hillary supporter in 4 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:22 am 
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She will make sure that Goldman remain in business when the next bubble bursts. Hopefully, she will also have the super-predator problem fixed by then.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:25 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
She will make sure that Goldman remain in business when the next bubble bursts. Hopefully, she will also have the super-predator problem fixed by then.


She will find solutions to get things done. #PracticalLeadership

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:32 am 
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It's a strange phenomenon. Black men and old white women become furious at any criticism of Hillary.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:35 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's a strange phenomenon. Black men and old white women become furious at any criticism of Hillary.


Old black men appear to support Hillary because of Bill. I hate Bill. Older women have a unique understanding of how far women have come and what Hillary likely had to deal with just to be in this position.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:40 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's a strange phenomenon. Black men and old white women become furious at any criticism of Hillary.


I think that the constant bashing that she has endured over the yrs has made her a sympathetic figure in the eyes of some.

In terms of knowing the issues, it is fairly obvious that she is light yrs ahead of Bernie Sanders.

Sanders also lacks credibility as a true Democrat. The guy spent years touting his status as the lone "independent Senator" in Congress only to run for President as a Democrat. Its good that Hillary Clinton has chosen to make this an issue. It should be.

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Last edited by long time guy on Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:41 am 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's a strange phenomenon. Black men and old white women become furious at any criticism of Hillary.


Old black men appear to support Hillary because of Bill. I hate Bill. Older women have a unique understanding of how far women have come and what Hillary likely had to deal with just to be in this position.


The only thing she had to deal with was having Bill as her husband. She would either be a corporate attorney or a moderately successful elected official without him.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:52 am 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's a strange phenomenon. Black men and old white women become furious at any criticism of Hillary.


Old black men appear to support Hillary because of Bill. I hate Bill. Older women have a unique understanding of how far women have come and what Hillary likely had to deal with just to be in this position.


I'm sure that informs their thinking, but this idea that anyone who doesn't think Hillary is fit to be president is anti-women is just crazy. The reason I posted this is one of my Facebook friends is angry that Sanders has the temerity to campaign against her. As if he should just kiss her ass and bow to her as a symbol representing the empowerment of all females.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:23 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
No, Im not kidding you. You're not being truthful. If you were, you would say public colleges because that is the truth.

And that is a difference. Your statements make it sound like he's proposing all college everywhere to be free. That is not the case.
That is just dumb.

I'm talking about people. You are just arguing to argue on this.

Its not dumb. It's you spinning. Is it that difficult to say he's proposing free tuition at public universities?

And that he's proposing affordable child care and not FREE child care for all?

As I said before, if the ideas are as crazy as you say they are, you shouldnt have to spin or exaggerate at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:50 am 
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Nas wrote:
She will find solutions to get things done. #PracticalLeadership


She will find ways to make sure that her friends get paid and nothing of significance changes. The idea of "practical" ideas means that you get the status quo at best.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:54 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Sanders also lacks credibility as a true Democrat. The guy spent years touting his status as the lone "independent Senator" in Congress only to run for President as a Democrat. Its good that Hillary Clinton has chosen to make this an issue. It should be.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:13 pm 
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http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... v5-x1PHZbw

The dissection of Bernie Sanders continues. It has been a very much needed addition to this cycle's election coverage.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:32 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwiPr-HDiIfMAhXJKB4KHVXRAEQQqG8IHTAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fm.nydailynews.com%2Fopinion%2Fmichael-cohen-bernie-belated-cross-examination-article-1.2594692&usg=AFQjCNEE4EJ3qS7O7bHA21x5htITdc8Sww&sig2=aW33S_QNZSXnv5-x1PHZbw

The dissection of Bernie Sanders continues. It has been a very much needed addition to this cycle's election coverage.


From the article...

"Sanders does an excellent job of diagnosing problems - a corrupt campaign-finance system, vast wealth inequality, millionaires and billionaires who write and bend the rules and more - but the substance is lacking."

Even if we all agreed to this (I don't), at least he is diagnosing the issues, unlike even his Democratic counterpart, who is more than content keeping the money in politics. It's pretty obvious that we will never address these issues, though, because anyone who has the nerve to bring them up is dismissed as "impractical." The irony is that it's mainly Democrats who are so vitriolic toward the one guy who is championing actual, progressive ideas.

Status quo, baby!

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:44 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
long time guy wrote:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwiPr-HDiIfMAhXJKB4KHVXRAEQQqG8IHTAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fm.nydailynews.com%2Fopinion%2Fmichael-cohen-bernie-belated-cross-examination-article-1.2594692&usg=AFQjCNEE4EJ3qS7O7bHA21x5htITdc8Sww&sig2=aW33S_QNZSXnv5-x1PHZbw

The dissection of Bernie Sanders continues. It has been a very much needed addition to this cycle's election coverage.


From the article...

"Sanders does an excellent job of diagnosing problems - a corrupt campaign-finance system, vast wealth inequality, millionaires and billionaires who write and bend the rules and more - but the substance is lacking."

Even if we all agreed to this (I don't), at least he is diagnosing the issues, unlike even his Democratic counterpart, who is more than content keeping the money in politics. It's pretty obvious that we will never address these issues, though, because anyone who has the nerve to bring them up is dismissed as "impractical." The irony is that it's mainly Democrats who are so vitriolic toward the one guy who is championing actual, progressive ideas.

Status quo, baby!


If Sanders were truly the agent of change that he pretends to be I'd be far more receptive with regards to his rhetoric. He provides critiques and that's about it. He was undressed in that interview. He really comes off as more of a political opportunist than anything. How can his plans be considered practical when it was clear that he doesn't really have a plan?

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:04 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
this idea that anyone who doesn't think Hillary is fit to be president is anti-women is just crazy. The reason I posted this is one of my Facebook friends is angry that Sanders has the temerity to campaign against her. As if he should just kiss her ass and bow to her as a symbol representing the empowerment of all females.

This is really the biggest turn off of Hillary and her supporters, IMO. I've never seen a campaign have such a sense of entitlement before.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:05 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
If Sanders were truly the agent of change that he pretends to be I'd be far more receptive with regards to his rhetoric. He provides critiques and that's about it. He was undressed in that interview. He really comes off as more of a political opportunist than anything. How can his plans be considered practical when it was clear that he doesn't really have a plan?


That's hilarious. The guy is an opportunist to what end? His opponent has made tens of millions of dollars in speaking fees off of her fame of being married to the president. Yet, Sanders is the opportunist?

What is Hilary's plan? The vague cause of continuing the Obama legacy. Meaning what? Rich get richer?

Sanders has some concrete plans. And the tax raises other than for the ultra rich are not that much considering that you would no longer be paying for healthcare premiums. He is really offering a 21st century New Deal. Without change in this: https://berniesanders.com/issues/money-in-politics/ , not going to be many changes elsewhere. And he is the only candidate talking about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:14 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
No, Im not kidding you. You're not being truthful. If you were, you would say public colleges because that is the truth.

And that is a difference. Your statements make it sound like he's proposing all college everywhere to be free. That is not the case.
That is just dumb.

I'm talking about people. You are just arguing to argue on this.

Its not dumb. It's you spinning. Is it that difficult to say he's proposing free tuition at public universities?

And that he's proposing affordable child care and not FREE child care for all?

As I said before, if the ideas are as crazy as you say they are, you shouldnt have to spin or exaggerate at all.
He is offering ALL eligible people free college tuition. I don't really understand your point that it would only be to public schools. Who cares?

Everyone but you seems to understand that I was referring to people when saying "ALL".

As for the child care stuff, I posted his actual words earlier and asked a very simple question.
Quote:
"which will provide all children… ages six weeks to kindergarten, with access to a full-time, high quality, developmentally appropriate, early care and education program."

Since you are the expert on this, what will the costs be to get this? What if you can't pay or don't want to pay?
What if I decide that I don't want to pay anything for my 7 week old?

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:29 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:
If Sanders were truly the agent of change that he pretends to be I'd be far more receptive with regards to his rhetoric. He provides critiques and that's about it. He was undressed in that interview. He really comes off as more of a political opportunist than anything. How can his plans be considered practical when it was clear that he doesn't really have a plan?


That's hilarious. The guy is an opportunist to what end? His opponent has made tens of millions of dollars in speaking fees off of her fame of being married to the president. Yet, Sanders is the opportunist?

What is Hilary's plan? The vague cause of continuing the Obama legacy. Meaning what? Rich get richer?

Sanders has some concrete plans. And the tax raises other than for the ultra rich are not that much considering that you would no longer be paying for healthcare premiums. He is really offering a 21st century New Deal. Without change in this: https://berniesanders.com/issues/money-in-politics/ , not going to be many changes elsewhere. And he is the only candidate talking about it.



He is attempting to portray himself as the candidate of change because he has correctly ascertained that it would benefit him politically. Historically he has never been that guy. He has positioned himself as the choice for the anyone but Hillary crowd. In this regard he is an opportunist.
True Socialist types such Chris Hedges have blasted him for his tendency to always fall in line. He even provided a quote where Sanders stated his reason for not running as an independent. Sanders stated that the reason that he didn't run as an independent is because he didn't want to end up like Ralph Nader.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:42 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
this idea that anyone who doesn't think Hillary is fit to be president is anti-women is just crazy. The reason I posted this is one of my Facebook friends is angry that Sanders has the temerity to campaign against her. As if he should just kiss her ass and bow to her as a symbol representing the empowerment of all females.

This is really the biggest turn off of Hillary and her supporters, IMO. I've never seen a campaign have such a sense of entitlement before.


You are kidding right.

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