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 Post subject: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:04 pm 
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Did anyone watch it? Am I correct in assuming it was like every other debate, where Bernie crushes her and then every media outlet inexplicably says she won?

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:12 pm 
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The Pro Hill media spots went crazy today. The Emilys list people tried to get on every media outlet they could telling how disappointed they are that the Sanders camp has stooped to the low Republican name calling.

My fave is that Hillary told everyone tonight she is and always has been in favor of $15 an hour wages...Sanders wasnt ready for her 180 and thus didnt have the quote, time and date that she stated she was a $12, in "Todays dollars"

Feb 12

"As president, I will work to raise the federal minimum wage back to the highest level it’s ever been  —  $12 an hour in today’s dollars  —  and support state and local efforts to go even further."

I will just guess that she will spin the "Todays Dollars" into $15 an hour...

She could so easily be President if she ever just told the damn truth...

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:42 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
She could so easily be President if she ever just told the damn truth...

The electorate doesn't even ask that much of her.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:56 am 
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its really amazing.

sanders is getting the ron paul treatment.. but at least paul had some wild ideas

sanders ideas are things that have been done in the past in this country (banks) and things that are currently done in other countries (college, healthcare). there is no reason for the media to ignore him like they are. other than he is not an illuminati member

and i know for a FACT hillary did NOT want $15 wages. she always said it should be $10 or $12... now its $15? she is such a snaky bitch... this is why you dont have women president cause theyre all just bitches

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:41 am 
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bigfan wrote:
The Pro Hill media spots went crazy today. The Emilys list people tried to get on every media outlet they could telling how disappointed they are that the Sanders camp has stooped to the low Republican name calling.

My fave is that Hillary told everyone tonight she is and always has been in favor of $15 an hour wages...Sanders wasnt ready for her 180 and thus didnt have the quote, time and date that she stated she was a $12, in "Todays dollars"

Feb 12

"As president, I will work to raise the federal minimum wage back to the highest level it’s ever been  —  $12 an hour in today’s dollars  —  and support state and local efforts to go even further."

I will just guess that she will spin the "Todays Dollars" into $15 an hour...

She could so easily be President if she ever just told the damn truth...




I think she is more presidential and I like that Bill comes with, I just like Bernie's ideas more.


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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:49 am 
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the few minutes i tuned in clinton was directly asked if she would be in favor of raising the IRS taxing limit on individuals that is about $118k of income right now

First answer: she danced around and did not explicitly answer the question.

Sanders called her out on the fact she didnt answer question, she got mad and tried to claim she did answer the question. during that discussion she did end up explicitly stating that she agreed that they should raise the $118k limit. so miracously she was able to answer the direct question. when she said it sanders' eyes opened wide in disbelief....

sanders then wanted to make sure he heard her right and asked her the same question again does clinton agree with raising $118k IRS taxing limit...? clinton's response to sanders? she went right back to her first "answer" and refused to commit to the idea... so in a 3 minute exchange she waffled on a simple question. during this non-"answer" sanders did a nice eye roll


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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:40 am 
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Funny, when I tuned in they were arguing about the disproportionate use of force by Israel in Gaza/West Bank. Clinton gave a fairly decent sounding answer, and then Bernie challenged her by saying she didn't answer the question. In her two minute reply, I had actually forgot the basic point of the question, and Bernie was right.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:34 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Did anyone watch it? Am I correct in assuming it was like every other debate, where Bernie crushes her and then every media outlet inexplicably says she won?


Nailed it.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:33 am 
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Bernie on Palestinian Arabs:

Quote:
Well, as somebody who spent many months of my life when I was a kid in Israel, who has family in Israel, of course Israel has a right not only to defend themselves, but to live in peace and security without fear of terrorist attack. That is not a debate.

But what you just read, yeah, I do believe that. Israel was subjected to terrorist attacks, has every right in the world to destroy terrorism. But we had in the Gaza area — not a very large area — some 10,000 civilians who were wounded and some 1,500 who were killed.

Now, if you're asking not just me, but countries all over the world, "was that a disproportionate attack," the answer is that I believe it was, and let me say something else.

As somebody who is 100 percent pro-Israel, in the long run -- and this is not going to be easy, God only knows, but in the long run if we are ever going to bring peace to that region which has seen so much hatred and so much war, we are going to have to treat the Palestinian people with respect and dignity.

So what is not to say -- to say that right now in Gaza, right now in Gaza unemployment is somewhere around 40 percent. You got a lot of that area continues, it hasn't been built, decimated, houses decimated health care decimated, schools decimated. I believe the United States and the rest of the world have got to work together to help the Palestinian people.

That does not make me anti-Israel. That paves the way, I think to an approach that works in the Middle East.


Well, okay, I guess, but I just worry that if you "treat the Palestinian people with respect and dignity," they'll still try to kill you anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:38 am 
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Didn't see it but everything I read says Bernie annihilated that lying bitch yet again.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:40 am 
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Lots of attacks on Hillary and none of them really landed.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:41 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Lots of attacks on Hillary and none of them really landed.



We find out soon, if she takes NY its all over.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:45 am 
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312player wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Lots of attacks on Hillary and none of them really landed.



We find out soon, if she takes NY its all over.


Image

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:50 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Did anyone watch it?


Aside from CH, Rick & Ruffcorn, it really doesn't sound like anyone did "for more than a few minutes".

I couldn't bring myself to watch a single minute.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:56 am 
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I didn't even watch it. I forgot. I was watching the Islanders game and then swimming. Totally slipped my mind. But from the crumbs I've picked up this morning, looks like another night of the usual, Hillary dissembles, Bernie lands a verbal haymaker, then lets up on her so that she can do it again. Then after it's over the pundits say "such rhetorical, much presidential, very impress, wow."

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:02 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Did anyone watch it?


Aside from CH, Rick & Ruffcorn, it really doesn't sound like anyone did "for more than a few minutes".

I couldn't bring myself to watch a single minute.
I watched the highlights.

None of the attacks really registered. He isn't going to win this election because Hillary accepts donations from corporations. For some reason, he keeps on going after that.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:07 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I watched the highlights.

None of the attacks really registered. He isn't going to win this election because Hillary accepts donations from corporations. For some reason, he keeps on going after that.


He let up to easily. Had her scrambling a couple times, but he returned to his usual talking points rather than continue in. He should have brought up the 3 a.m. ad she ran in 08 and her husband's attack on the last 8 years while she was wrapping herself in the banner of the Obama administration.

Trump would really fluster either of them. Neither are great in this format.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:08 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I didn't even watch it. I forgot. I was watching the Islanders game and then swimming. Totally slipped my mind. But from the crumbs I've picked up this morning, looks like another night of the usual, Hillary dissembles, Bernie lands a verbal haymaker, then lets up on her so that she can do it again. Then after it's over the pundits say "such rhetorical, much presidential, very impress, wow."


The very same pundits who completely ignored the thousands of people in DC protesting the other day against the corporate funding of our elections.

Funny thing is that I did notice that former Ohio Sec. of State Ken Blackwell (of the 2004 Diebolt? voting machine scandal) was all over CNN & MSNBC last night. Pitiful.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:11 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Did anyone watch it?


Aside from CH, Rick & Ruffcorn, it really doesn't sound like anyone did "for more than a few minutes".

I couldn't bring myself to watch a single minute.
I watched the highlights.

None of the attacks really registered. He isn't going to win this election because Hillary accepts donations from corporations. For some reason, he keeps on going after that.


Because it's a point that needs to be raised. Bernie has brought more attention to the need for Campaign finance reform than any candidate I can remember. And, IMO, it's probably the single most important issue there is because it affects how we address (or dont address) every other issue. I think most people agree it needs to be fixed. Don't you?

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:13 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
None of the attacks really registered. He isn't going to win this election because Hillary accepts donations from corporations. For some reason, he keeps on going after that.


I really believe that as he has been cloistered in Vermont much of the last 40 years, he has fallen far out of touch with the fickle nature of the people of this country. They, we need something new and shiny every 45 days or so, kind of like pop music. Imo, it's more evidence that the people running his campaign really didn't take it seriously as anything other than a protest job and have had zero long term planning.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:18 pm 
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I watched the whole debate.

Clinton struggled to answer several questions coherently, including those on social security and the minimum wage. Her foreign policy points were mostly gibberish, and her position on bank regulation seems shockingly out of touch given the recent assessments by the Federal Reserve and FDIC.

Sanders said the same things Sanders always says. Did fine on most issues, killed Clinton on some foreign policy questions, struggled to explain his views on gun control.

None of this matters. Independents can't vote in the NY Democratic primary, Clinton will win by 12-15 points.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:20 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
None of the attacks really registered. He isn't going to win this election because Hillary accepts donations from corporations. For some reason, he keeps on going after that.


I really believe that as he has been cloistered in Vermont much of the last 40 years, he has fallen far out of touch with the fickle nature of the people of this country. They, we need something new and shiny every 45 days or so, kind of like pop music. Imo, it's more evidence that the people running his campaign really didn't take it seriously as anything other than a protest job and have had zero long term planning.


Well, Tad Devine is his principal strategist. He's a complete idiot. None of the top Democratic talent wanted to work with Sanders because they all saw/see him as a loser.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:32 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
None of the attacks really registered. He isn't going to win this election because Hillary accepts donations from corporations. For some reason, he keeps on going after that.


I really believe that as he has been cloistered in Vermont much of the last 40 years, he has fallen far out of touch with the fickle nature of the people of this country. They, we need something new and shiny every 45 days or so, kind of like pop music. Imo, it's more evidence that the people running his campaign really didn't take it seriously as anything other than a protest job and have had zero long term planning.


Well, Tad Devine is his principal strategist. He's a complete idiot. None of the top Democratic talent wanted to work with Sanders because they all saw/see him as a loser.


Sanders always reminds me of the people I grew up around in Hyde Park in the 1970-80s (or maybe better old Ald. Leon Despres). Full of fire and great ideas, but unless you were talking about small projects like preserving Promontory Point or the old South Shore Country Club's possible demolition they were going to run out of steam & support really quickly. When they didn't, despite how smart they were, they invariably found themselves lost in new details.

I really almost wish Sanders' wife took charge earlier, she seems to be much, much more the pragmatist & quick study.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:56 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
None of the attacks really registered. He isn't going to win this election because Hillary accepts donations from corporations. For some reason, he keeps on going after that.


I really believe that as he has been cloistered in Vermont much of the last 40 years, he has fallen far out of touch with the fickle nature of the people of this country. They, we need something new and shiny every 45 days or so, kind of like pop music. Imo, it's more evidence that the people running his campaign really didn't take it seriously as anything other than a protest job and have had zero long term planning.


Well, Tad Devine is his principal strategist. He's a complete idiot. None of the top Democratic talent wanted to work with Sanders because they all saw/see him as a loser.


Sanders always reminds me of the people I grew up around in Hyde Park in the 1970-80s (or maybe better old Ald. Leon Despres). Full of fire and great ideas, but unless you were talking about small projects like preserving Promontory Point or the old South Shore Country Club's possible demolition they were going to run out of steam & support really quickly. When they didn't, despite how smart they were, they invariably found themselves lost in new details.

I really almost wish Sanders' wife took charge earlier, she seems to be much, much more the pragmatist & quick study.


Well, to be fair, he is calling for what he says is a "revolution," so all the talk about pragmatism strikes me as missing the point. Seems he's less interested in "getting things done" because for him to get things done in the current environment is to get dirty by kowtowing to big money and other special interests, or exactly the sort of things he wants to eradicate instead of perpetuate (the latter being the more "pragmatic" thing to do). IMO

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:58 pm 
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The biggest problem I have with the "political revolution" is that it's a one-man band. Where are the downballot candidates running on his beliefs?

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:08 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
The biggest problem I have with the "political revolution" is that it's a one-man band. Where are the downballot candidates running on his beliefs?


There aren't and won't be. Its quite telling that Sanders but recently received his first Senatorial endorsement. He has been in Washington far too long for anyone to take his revolution talk seriously. There really isn't any movement either. There is however, a guy that has emerged as the Hillary alternative and that is about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:27 pm 
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The political class will probably win again, which is basically kicking the can down the road for another few years. The fact that Trump is popular, and Sanders is giving Hilary a run means that things could get ugly the next downturn around.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:33 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The political class will probably win again, which is basically kicking the can down the road for another few years. The fact that Trump is popular, and Sanders is giving Hilary a run means that things could get ugly the next downturn around.



Its a class that Sanders is and has been firmly entrenched in for pretty much his entire adult life. That is one of the fundamental problems with thinking of his candidacy as anything other than what it is; a run of the mill political campaign.

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:43 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The political class will probably win again, which is basically kicking the can down the road for another few years. The fact that Trump is popular, and Sanders is giving Hilary a run means that things could get ugly the next downturn around.



Its a class that Sanders is and has been firmly entrenched in for pretty much his entire adult life. That is one of the fundamental problems with thinking of his candidacy as anything other than what it is; a run of the mill political campaign.


Sanders is challenging the corporate values that people like the Clintons have helped legitimate within the Democratic party over the past 30 years. By that standard it is anything but "run of the mill".

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 Post subject: Re: Dem Debate
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:52 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Its a class that Sanders is and has been firmly entrenched in for pretty much his entire adult life. That is one of the fundamental problems with thinking of his candidacy as anything other than what it is; a run of the mill political campaign.


He ran on small donations. He is not filthy rich, and he is railing against money in politics. If you can't see the difference you are choosing to be blind.

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